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by: Moinak Ghosh
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From:
Dublin
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[desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 7:30 AM
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Hello everyone!
I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
the solutions.
We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
missing X or Y software.
Cheers, really appreciate the help,
Luis
--
Luis de Bethencourt Guimerá
luisbg
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145
From:
AR
Registered:
5/4/07
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 8:08 AM
in response to: luisbg
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On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Luis de
Bethencourt<luis dot debethencourt at sun dot com> wrote:
> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
> the solutions.
>
> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
> missing X or Y software.
Just as a desktop user, I guess skype or gtalk/jingle support would be
the major thing. For the rest I'm mostly covered. SUNWmutt with sasl
support would be great too.
As minors, some laptop energy saving features, I don't know why and
never checked into it, but I can't turn my atheros radio off. Another
minor would be acpi keys support and scrolling on the touchpad.
I still use it everyday on my EEE 701, so it's no drawback.
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168
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7/2/09
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 8:12 AM
in response to: sergiuss
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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Gtalk is accessible through Pidgin IM (without the voice though, however the voice connection can be accessed through Gmail site).
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Posts:
30
From:
CZ
Registered:
5/21/08
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 8:10 AM
in response to: luisbg
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Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
> Hello everyone!
>
> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>
> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
> the solutions.
>
> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
> missing X or Y software.
>
> Cheers, really appreciate the help,
>
> Luis
Hi,
not really desktop but desktop experience:
0. terminfo and keyboard shortcuts working by default both for X
applications and for console / terminal ones. Color terminal by default.
1. When swapping, OpenSolaris desktop is unusable compared to Linux.
2. Power outage during system run causes often boot archive corruption
that needs to be fixed in single user mode. Linux just boots up again
with no hassle, and since 2005 I've experienced no fs data corruption
during power outages on Linux.
3. Dedicating 1GB RAM solely for ZFS is overkill. I want my RAM back for
my games, browser, OS, virtual machines.... I know I can configure ZFS
to eat less, but eating 1GB by default?
4. Update Wine in contrib repo to work with Boomer (sound drivers)
flawlessly and without need for manual intervention.
5. Something like top or powertop. I want to know what eats my memory.
At best it could cover drivers and kernel too.
gnome-system-monitor seems not enough when my workstation with 2GB RAM
swaps and crawls like slime and gnome-system-monitor displays ~300MB
used by programs ...
Cheers
Hark
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Posts:
170
From:
CZ
Registered:
12/6/07
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 8:22 AM
in response to: hark
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Vit Hrachovy wrote:
> 5. Something like top or powertop. I want to know what eats my memory.
> At best it could cover drivers and kernel too.
Try SUNWtop and SUNWpowertop.
Regards,
hnhn
--
Jan Hnatek
jan dot hnatek at sun dot com
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From:
CZ
Registered:
5/21/08
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 8:29 AM
in response to: hnhn
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Jan Hnatek wrote:
>
>
> Vit Hrachovy wrote:
>> 5. Something like top or powertop. I want to know what eats my memory.
>> At best it could cover drivers and kernel too.
>
> Try SUNWtop and SUNWpowertop.
>
> Regards,
> hnhn
>
Ahh, thanks Honzo.
I spend too much of my life on Solaris 10 .)
Cheers
Hark
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Posts:
109
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4/21/07
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 9:25 AM
in response to: hark
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I think the other option on Solaris is prstat (ships with S10 for those that
don't install top from Sunfreeware or somewhere else).
William Yang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: desktop-discuss-bounces at opensolaris dot org [mailto:desktop-discuss-
> bounces at opensolaris dot org] On Behalf Of Vit Hrachovy
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:29 AM
> To: Jan Hnatek
> Cc: Luis de Bethencourt; desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> Subject: Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
>
> Jan Hnatek wrote:
> >
> >
> > Vit Hrachovy wrote:
> >> 5. Something like top or powertop. I want to know what eats my memory.
> >> At best it could cover drivers and kernel too.
> >
> > Try SUNWtop and SUNWpowertop.
> >
> > Regards,
> > hnhn
> >
>
> Ahh, thanks Honzo.
> I spend too much of my life on Solaris 10 .)
> Cheers
> Hark
> _______________________________________________
> desktop-discuss mailing list
> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
121
From:
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Registered:
9/27/06
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 29, 2009 8:16 AM
in response to: ywlke287
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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prstat is nice for zones as well, you can see what's happening in all of them (ncluding linux zones):
prstat -Z
I could also use skype support, or if there was a very-cross-platform alternative (at least windows, OS X, and linux also) that worked on solaris I could use that.
IPS package manager should have a checkbox menu that lets you define which packages can be viewed or search, rather than only one at a time.
Also I noticed that Star Office 9 patches don't seem to work on OpenSolaris yet... would be nice to have better Star Office support for customers that have purchased it.
Google apps in general (not all of which are open source): Chrome, Google Earth, Android Devkit, Android on Solaris.
KDE 4.3 when it is available, preferably quick&easy to install, and well integrated.
This isn't directly related but better lx zone integration. Lx zones are great but there are a few problems:
1) They don't support modern linux distributions ... centos 5.3 is about as close as you can get that I know of.
2)To run an X application, you have to use ssh X11 forwarding or export diplays, etc. It would be pretty cool to have a lx zone that could be tailored to enabling linux desktop compatability, such that even 3d apps and games would run smoothly in it. I think most of the tech must be there .... this would be really great. I know one of the design principles of zones is sandboxing, but actually enabling IPC between zones (perhaps as an abstraction over sockets? - Idunno much about this) seems like it'd be pretty useful.
Fast User Switching to allow multiple X11 sessions for e.g., family desktop systems.
Message was edited by: jondice
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Posts:
109
From:
Registered:
4/21/07
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 29, 2009 10:41 AM
in response to: jondice
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There's imo.im, which has a Flash-based Skype client. It semi-works on Sun
Rays, so I would expect it to work on a regular desktop/laptop.
William Yang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: desktop-discuss-bounces at opensolaris dot org [mailto:desktop-discuss-
> bounces at opensolaris dot org] On Behalf Of Brandon Barker
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:16 AM
> To: desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> Subject: Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
>
> prstat is nice for zones as well, you can see what's happening in all of
> them (ncluding linux zones):
> prstat -Z
>
> I could also use skype support, or if there was a very-cross-platform
> alternative (at least windows, OS X, and linux also) that worked on
> solaris I could use that.
>
> IPS package manager should have a checkbox menu that lets you define which
> packages can be viewed or search, rather than only one at a time.
>
> Also I noticed that Star Office 9 patches don't seem to work on
> OpenSolaris yet... would be nice to have better Star Office support for
> customers that have purchased it.
>
> Google apps in general (not all of which are open source): Chrome, Google
> Earth, Android Devkit, Android on Solaris.
>
> KDE 4.3 when it is available, preferably quick&easy to install, and well
> integrated.
>
> This isn't directly related but better lx zone integration. Lx zones are
> great but there are a few problems:
> 1) They don't support modern linux distributions ... centos 5.3 is about
> as close as you can get that I know of.
>
> 2)To run an X application, you have to use ssh X11 forwarding or export
> diplays, etc. It would be pretty cool to have a lx zone that could be
> tailored to enabling linux desktop compatability, such that even 3d apps
> and games would run smoothly in it. I think most of the tech must be
> there .... this would be really great. I know one of the design
> principles of zones is sandboxing, but actually enabling IPC between zones
> (perhaps as an abstraction over sockets? - Idunno much about this) seems
> like it'd be pretty useful.
> --
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> desktop-discuss mailing list
> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
121
From:
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Registered:
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 29, 2009 11:11 AM
in response to: ywlke287
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Cool, were you able to use video chat in imo.im in solaris? It
couldn't detect my video device ... maybe its a driver problem or
maybe its a flash problem, I haven't ruled the first out (see below).
There's also gnome meeting (ekiga) which is included in opensolaris,
but I don't think it can talk to skype and there aren't windows builds
of it available, so its out for me for the time being =/. I attempted
to test it, but I didn't see a way to test video without calling
someone (and I have no contacts).
Brandon Barker
Phone: (607) 262-6009
brandon dot barker at gmail dot com
http://brandon.barker.googlepages.com/home
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:41 PM, William Yang<wyang at tjhsst dot edu> wrote:
> There's imo.im, which has a Flash-based Skype client. It semi-works on Sun
> Rays, so I would expect it to work on a regular desktop/laptop.
>
> William Yang
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: desktop-discuss-bounces at opensolaris dot org [mailto:desktop-discuss-
>> bounces at opensolaris dot org] On Behalf Of Brandon Barker
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:16 AM
>> To: desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>> Subject: Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
>>
>> prstat is nice for zones as well, you can see what's happening in all of
>> them (ncluding linux zones):
>> prstat -Z
>>
>> I could also use skype support, or if there was a very-cross-platform
>> alternative (at least windows, OS X, and linux also) that worked on
>> solaris I could use that.
>>
>> IPS package manager should have a checkbox menu that lets you define which
>> packages can be viewed or search, rather than only one at a time.
>>
>> Also I noticed that Star Office 9 patches don't seem to work on
>> OpenSolaris yet... would be nice to have better Star Office support for
>> customers that have purchased it.
>>
>> Google apps in general (not all of which are open source): Chrome, Google
>> Earth, Android Devkit, Android on Solaris.
>>
>> KDE 4.3 when it is available, preferably quick&easy to install, and well
>> integrated.
>>
>> This isn't directly related but better lx zone integration. Lx zones are
>> great but there are a few problems:
>> 1) They don't support modern linux distributions ... centos 5.3 is about
>> as close as you can get that I know of.
>>
>> 2)To run an X application, you have to use ssh X11 forwarding or export
>> diplays, etc. It would be pretty cool to have a lx zone that could be
>> tailored to enabling linux desktop compatability, such that even 3d apps
>> and games would run smoothly in it. I think most of the tech must be
>> there .... this would be really great. I know one of the design
>> principles of zones is sandboxing, but actually enabling IPC between zones
>> (perhaps as an abstraction over sockets? - Idunno much about this) seems
>> like it'd be pretty useful.
>> --
>> This message posted from opensolaris.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> desktop-discuss mailing list
>> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>
>
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Posts:
109
From:
Registered:
4/21/07
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 29, 2009 11:16 AM
in response to: jondice
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Unfortunately I only have access to a Sun Ray, and they don't support
webcams.
Ekiga uses SIP IIRC, which is also a very multi-platform solution (the
clients will vary by platform). If you want to interact with Skype, I think
there's some way using the Gizmo5 SIP service, but it might not be free.
William Yang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brandon Barker [mailto:brandon dot barker at gmail dot com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 2:11 PM
> To: William Yang
> Cc: desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> Subject: Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
>
> Cool, were you able to use video chat in imo.im in solaris? It
> couldn't detect my video device ... maybe its a driver problem or
> maybe its a flash problem, I haven't ruled the first out (see below).
>
>
> There's also gnome meeting (ekiga) which is included in opensolaris,
> but I don't think it can talk to skype and there aren't windows builds
> of it available, so its out for me for the time being =/. I attempted
> to test it, but I didn't see a way to test video without calling
> someone (and I have no contacts).
>
> Brandon Barker
> Phone: (607) 262-6009
> brandon dot barker at gmail dot com
> http://brandon.barker.googlepages.com/home
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:41 PM, William Yang<wyang at tjhsst dot edu> wrote:
> > There's imo.im, which has a Flash-based Skype client. It semi-works on
> Sun
> > Rays, so I would expect it to work on a regular desktop/laptop.
> >
> > William Yang
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: desktop-discuss-bounces at opensolaris dot org [mailto:desktop-discuss-
> >> bounces at opensolaris dot org] On Behalf Of Brandon Barker
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:16 AM
> >> To: desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> >> Subject: Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris
> desktop?
> >>
> >> prstat is nice for zones as well, you can see what's happening in all
> of
> >> them (ncluding linux zones):
> >> prstat -Z
> >>
> >> I could also use skype support, or if there was a very-cross-platform
> >> alternative (at least windows, OS X, and linux also) that worked on
> >> solaris I could use that.
> >>
> >> IPS package manager should have a checkbox menu that lets you define
> which
> >> packages can be viewed or search, rather than only one at a time.
> >>
> >> Also I noticed that Star Office 9 patches don't seem to work on
> >> OpenSolaris yet... would be nice to have better Star Office support for
> >> customers that have purchased it.
> >>
> >> Google apps in general (not all of which are open source): Chrome,
> Google
> >> Earth, Android Devkit, Android on Solaris.
> >>
> >> KDE 4.3 when it is available, preferably quick&easy to install, and
> well
> >> integrated.
> >>
> >> This isn't directly related but better lx zone integration. Lx zones
> are
> >> great but there are a few problems:
> >> 1) They don't support modern linux distributions ... centos 5.3 is
> about
> >> as close as you can get that I know of.
> >>
> >> 2)To run an X application, you have to use ssh X11 forwarding or export
> >> diplays, etc. It would be pretty cool to have a lx zone that could be
> >> tailored to enabling linux desktop compatability, such that even 3d
> apps
> >> and games would run smoothly in it. I think most of the tech must be
> >> there .... this would be really great. I know one of the design
> >> principles of zones is sandboxing, but actually enabling IPC between
> zones
> >> (perhaps as an abstraction over sockets? - Idunno much about this)
> seems
> >> like it'd be pretty useful.
> >> --
> >> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> desktop-discuss mailing list
> >> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> >
> >
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Posts:
529
From:
FR
Registered:
6/16/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 19, 2009 11:15 PM
in response to: jondice
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Brandon Barker wrote:
> Cool, were you able to use video chat in imo.im in solaris? It
> couldn't detect my video device ... maybe its a driver problem or
> maybe its a flash problem, I haven't ruled the first out (see below).
>
webcam works on my laptop with imo.im: dell precision m70 with os2009.06
111b, webcam Logitech Qickcam Pro. But the com is very unstable, i have
to reconnect many times in minutes. But at last, this is a real solution!
gerard
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566
From:
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 11:44 AM
in response to: hark
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> 1. When swapping, OpenSolaris desktop is unusable compared to Linux.
That's the way swap works right now. There have been mentions of a VM
2.0 project that would tackle that issue among other things, but details
are scarce and there's no official page about it.
Regards,
-mg
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Posts:
102
From:
SE
Registered:
6/14/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 11:58 AM
in response to: hark
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Vit Hrachovy wrote:
>
> 3. Dedicating 1GB RAM solely for ZFS is overkill. I want my RAM back for
> my games, browser, OS, virtual machines.... I know I can configure ZFS
> to eat less, but eating 1GB by default?
At least make it well documented and easily adjusted.
Maybe as an option in the installer, that would be neat especially for
laptop installs.
It's way to hidden right now.
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Shawn Walker
swalker@opensolaris....
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 12:04 PM
in response to: jasse
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Jasse Jansson wrote:
> Vit Hrachovy wrote:
>>
>> 3. Dedicating 1GB RAM solely for ZFS is overkill. I want my RAM back
>> for my games, browser, OS, virtual machines.... I know I can configure
>> ZFS to eat less, but eating 1GB by default?
>
> At least make it well documented and easily adjusted.
> Maybe as an option in the installer, that would be neat especially for
> laptop installs.
> It's way to hidden right now.
I think the better option is to make it smarter about determining the
size of the cache and the adjustment of it.
--
Shawn Walker
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Posts:
102
From:
SE
Registered:
6/14/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 1:07 PM
in response to: Shawn Walker
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Shawn Walker wrote:
> Jasse Jansson wrote:
>> Vit Hrachovy wrote:
>>>
>>> 3. Dedicating 1GB RAM solely for ZFS is overkill. I want my RAM back
>>> for my games, browser, OS, virtual machines.... I know I can
>>> configure ZFS to eat less, but eating 1GB by default?
>>
>> At least make it well documented and easily adjusted.
>> Maybe as an option in the installer, that would be neat especially for
>> laptop installs.
>> It's way to hidden right now.
>
> I think the better option is to make it smarter about determining the
> size of the cache and the adjustment of it.
>
That would work.
An easily found setting about how fast is releases cashe memory would be
nice.
I have not done any specific testing, but it seems that releasing memory
isn't high priority for zfs.
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Posts:
43
From:
Dublin
Registered:
1/26/08
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 10:17 AM
in response to: hark
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Vit Hrachovy wrote:
> Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
>> Hello everyone!
>>
>> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
>> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
>> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
>> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>>
>> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
>> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
>> the solutions.
>>
>> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
>> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
>> missing X or Y software.
>>
>> Cheers, really appreciate the help,
>>
>> Luis
>
> Hi,
> not really desktop but desktop experience:
>
> 0. terminfo and keyboard shortcuts working by default both for X
> applications and for console / terminal ones. Color terminal by default.
Darren Kenny has added a note in the wiki page about your 'Color
terminal by default' comment:
- Please explain this - xterm & gnome-terminal have both had color support by default since Solaris 9.
(in http://wiki.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/Gap_Analysis)
Do you mind explaining what you mean by this? am I correct to pressume
you mean 'ls --color'?
For future reference... it would be nice if people made this comments in
this thread first, so they can be discussed and then added to the wiki.
Specially since there is a bigger chance for the parties to read
it/notice it here than in the wiki.
Thanks! \m/
Luis
>
> 1. When swapping, OpenSolaris desktop is unusable compared to Linux.
>
> 2. Power outage during system run causes often boot archive corruption
> that needs to be fixed in single user mode. Linux just boots up again
> with no hassle, and since 2005 I've experienced no fs data corruption
> during power outages on Linux.
>
> 3. Dedicating 1GB RAM solely for ZFS is overkill. I want my RAM back
> for my games, browser, OS, virtual machines.... I know I can configure
> ZFS to eat less, but eating 1GB by default?
>
> 4. Update Wine in contrib repo to work with Boomer (sound drivers)
> flawlessly and without need for manual intervention.
>
> 5. Something like top or powertop. I want to know what eats my memory.
> At best it could cover drivers and kernel too.
>
> gnome-system-monitor seems not enough when my workstation with 2GB RAM
> swaps and crawls like slime and gnome-system-monitor displays ~300MB
> used by programs ...
>
> Cheers
> Hark
_______________________________________________
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Posts:
71
From:
Registered:
6/14/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 8:55 AM
in response to: luisbg
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Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>
> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
> the solutions.
>
> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
> missing X or Y software.
I miss the Funambol SyncML plugin for Thunderbird, to synchronize
calendar and contacts with blackberry and other desktops, over the
network. There's a Windows, MacOS and Linux version, but not Solaris
https://mozilla-plugin.forge.funambol.org/
source:
https://mozilla-plugin.forge.funambol.org/source/browse/mozilla-plugin/
(The server side, Funambol DS, which is written in Java, works fine in
Solaris)
http://www.funambol.org
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Posts:
988
From:
IE
Registered:
7/14/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 8:59 AM
in response to: luisbg
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On 28 Jul 2009, at 15:30, Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
> Hello everyone!
>
> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>
> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
> the solutions.
Darren Kenny used to maintain a list like this... it's still available
at <http:// but
hasn't been updated since 2006.
Perhaps someone would like update (and perhaps wiki-fy) it?
Cheeri,
Calum.
--
CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland
mailto:calum dot benson at sun dot com OpenSolaris Desktop Team
http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771
Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems
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Posts:
581
From:
CZ
Registered:
3/21/06
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 7:05 AM
in response to: calumb
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Hi,
V út, 28. 07. 2009 v 17:59, Calum Benson píše:
> On 28 Jul 2009, at 15:30, Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone!
> >
> > I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
> > Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
> > linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
> > is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
> >
> > What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
> > try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
> > the solutions.
>
> Darren Kenny used to maintain a list like this... it's still available
> at <http:// but
> hasn't been updated since 2006.
>
> Perhaps someone would like update (and perhaps wiki-fy) it?
>
It would be execellent idea. E.g. identify missinging categories by wide
discussion and then give people chance to add their candidates to every
section + some generic area for ideas, which could be evaluated by
Desktop team.
Best regards,
Milan
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Posts:
43
From:
Dublin
Registered:
1/26/08
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 7, 2009 9:45 AM
in response to: calumb
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Calum Benson wrote:
>
> On 28 Jul 2009, at 15:30, Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone!
>>
>> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
>> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
>> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
>> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>>
>> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
>> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
>> the solutions.
>
> Darren Kenny used to maintain a list like this... it's still available
> at <http:// but
> hasn't been updated since 2006.
>
> Perhaps someone would like update (and perhaps wiki-fy) it?
>
> Cheeri,
> Calum.
>
Hello again everyone!
I've tracked all the comments in this thread and as promised... wikified it
(Calum, I'm sure you invented that verb but I'm willing to spread it around)
http://wiki.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/Gap_Analysis
It is meant to be community driven, so keep adding anything you would
like/want to it.
I will be maintaining it, trying to keep it organized and making sense.
Thanks for the great input!
Luis
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Che Kristo
che@opensolaris.org
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 7, 2009 4:10 PM
in response to: luisbg
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Thank you so much! Hopefully we can turn some of these into use cases so that we have a clear understanding of what the user wants... Ché On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Luis de Bethencourt <Luis dot Debethencourt at sun dot com> wrote:
Calum Benson wrote:
On 28 Jul 2009, at 15:30, Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
Hello everyone!
I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
the solutions.
Darren Kenny used to maintain a list like this... it's still available at <http://opensolaris.org/os/project/jds/documents/desktop_gaps/> but hasn't been updated since 2006.
Perhaps someone would like update (and perhaps wiki-fy) it?
Cheeri,
Calum.
I've tracked all the comments in this thread and as promised... wikified it
(Calum, I'm sure you invented that verb but I'm willing to spread it around)
http://wiki.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/Gap_Analysis
It is meant to be community driven, so keep adding anything you would like/want to it.
I will be maintaining it, trying to keep it organized and making sense.
Thanks for the great input!
Luis
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Posts:
390
From:
IE
Registered:
6/17/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 7, 2009 11:12 PM
in response to: Che Kristo
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Excellent Luis!
Thanks,
Darren.
On 08/09/2009 00:10, Che Kristo wrote:
> Thank you so much! Hopefully we can turn some of these into use cases so
> that we have a clear understanding of what the user wants...
>
> Ché
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Luis de Bethencourt Luis dot Debethencourt at sun dot com> wrote:
>
>> Calum Benson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 28 Jul 2009, at 15:30, Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello everyone!
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
>>>> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
>>>> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
>>>> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>>>>
>>>> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
>>>> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
>>>> the solutions.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Darren Kenny used to maintain a list like this... it's still available at
>>> <http:// but
>>> hasn't been updated since 2006.
>>>
>>> Perhaps someone would like update (and perhaps wiki-fy) it?
>>>
>>> Cheeri,
>>> Calum.
>>>
>>> Hello again everyone!
>>
>> I've tracked all the comments in this thread and as promised... wikified it
>> (Calum, I'm sure you invented that verb but I'm willing to spread it
>> around)
>>
>> http://wiki.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/Gap_Analysis
>>
>> It is meant to be community driven, so keep adding anything you would
>> like/want to it.
>>
>> I will be maintaining it, trying to keep it organized and making sense.
>>
>> Thanks for the great input!
>>
>> Luis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> desktop-discuss mailing list
>> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> desktop-discuss mailing list
> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
286
From:
US
Registered:
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 11:44 AM
in response to: luisbg
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Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
> Hello everyone!
>
> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>
> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
> the solutions.
>
> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
> missing X or Y software.
>
> Cheers, really appreciate the help,
>
> Luis
>
>
From a business perspective, gnucash as a general accounting utility
and kicad as a specific ecad application.
Paul
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Posts:
42
From:
GB
Registered:
7/3/09
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 1:21 PM
in response to: luisbg
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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1. Bluetooth support to sync my phone contacts. Also, a good and flexible sync software solution - this area I have always found a bit flaky on linux so would be good to beat them to it. Looks like Moblin platform is coming up with some good ideas in this area, maybe we could adopt it?
http://moblin.org/projects/syncevolution
http://moblin.org/documentation/syncevolution/direct-synchronization-aka-syncml-server
2. Latest Wine build in IPS. 1.0.1 is too old.
3. Port mono apps over. I know people are divided on mono, but the fact is that some of the best desktop software for Gnome is being developed on mono. An example of where we suffer for this is that Opensolaris is currently without a photo library manager like F-Spot. I also find Beagle to have better features than tracker so would like the option to use that instead.
4. Better than F-Spot anyway in my opinion, is Google Picasa. Getting this packaged for OpenSolaris would be really good, and fill a big gap for desktop users.
5. Startup and shutdown need to be much quicker (takes at least 2 minutes to do either of these on my machine).
6. Better integration of basic (i.e. not fancy things like snapshots) ZFS features with Nautilus, e.g. file permissions dialog does not represent the actual ZFS ACLs from what I can work out. Also ZFS features exploited in Gnome generally, e.g. shared folders GUI only allows NFS shares (not sure if this interacts with ZFS or does it a different way), whereas on a home network it would be good to use this GUI to set up CIFS shares for use in a Microsoft workgroup.
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Kristian Rink
lists@zimmer428.net
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 29, 2009 12:53 PM
in response to: stevenm1
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Hi all;
... I think, about that, having more packages in the repository (in order to
have a choice) would help as eventually everyone will come up with her/his
favorite applications... :
Matthew Stevenson schrieb:
> 1. Bluetooth support to sync my phone contacts. Also, a good and flexible
> sync software solution - this area I have always found a bit flaky on
> linux so would be good to beat them to it. Looks like Moblin platform is
> coming up with some good ideas in this area, maybe we could adopt it?
I'd throw in wammu [http://wammu.eu/] here, asides the fact that I still
lack a real solution to sync mobile phones and arbitrary desktop
applications doing, i.e., contact/mail/calendar management (i.o.w. not tied
to evolution, Outlook et al).
> 3. Port mono apps over. I know people are divided on mono, but the fact
> is that some of the best desktop software for Gnome is being developed on
> mono. An example of where we suffer for this is that Opensolaris is
> currently without a photo library manager like F-Spot. I also find Beagle
> to have better features than tracker so would like the option to use that
> instead.
I'd enjoy seeing them available for OpenSolaris but eventually wouldn't use
them, not mainly because of the issues dividing community about mono but
rather because they seem, well, a little to heavy compared to what they do,
and (with the exception of f-spot perhaps) every mono based GNOME
application I've seen so far has a non-mono equivalent in terms of features
and usability available.
Regarding beagle and desktop indexing / search engines in general, on one
side I'd enjoy seeing, well, sort of "preconfigured profiles" available
here: In most situations, I cut down / disable these features on GNU/Linux
manually because I never really use them and so they just burn resources
that could be spent better on something else. On the other side: Shouldn't
be there more than "just" text based indexing? KDE folks recently started
including things that grew out of the Nepomuk semantic desktop project,
which has a way better approach towards indexing or sorting information...
> 4. Better than F-Spot anyway in my opinion, is Google Picasa. Getting
> this packaged for OpenSolaris would be really good, and fill a big gap
> for desktop users.
Choice, again, I guess... ;) I never found Google Picasa pleasant on
GNU/Linux, partly also because it just seems "based upon wine-on-steroids".
> 6. Better integration of basic (i.e. not fancy things like snapshots) ZFS
> features with Nautilus, e.g. file permissions dialog does not represent
> the actual ZFS ACLs from what I can work out. Also ZFS features exploited
> in Gnome generally, e.g. shared folders GUI only allows NFS shares (not
> sure if this interacts with ZFS or does it a different way), whereas on a
> home network it would be good to use this GUI to set up CIFS shares for
> use in a Microsoft workgroup.
Yes, yes, yes. :) Plus, again, of course, the option to disable all these
features altogether if not wanted/needed. When "on the road", I don't want
to have file share exporting services running on my machine, burning my
battery power and eventually even exposing security holes. :)
K.
--
Kristian Rink
http://pictorial.zimmer428.net # kawazu at jabber dot org
"What was once thought can never be unthought."
(Duerrenmatt - 'Die Physiker')
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Che Kristo
che@opensolaris.org
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 10:39 PM
in response to: luisbg
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>From me: 1.) Support for *easily* configuring HSDPA connections (Telstra NextG for example) 2.) DVD Playback (I understand Fluendo will have this soon, although that is a "fluendo soon" which can turn out to be years :-|)
3.) Well integrated Wine, this is in the works at Bordeax Group and Codeweavers have their unsupported variant. 4.) An office suite that sucks less, I use MS Office 2007 at work and feel like i'm in a time warp when I use OOo :-|, I hope Larry's JavaFX GUI changes this :-)
Number 1 & 4 is something we can do within the community, the others are related to our distribution base being large enough for the relevant organisations to develop for our platform.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:30 AM, Luis de Bethencourt <luis dot debethencourt at sun dot com> wrote:
Hello everyone!
I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
the solutions.
We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
missing X or Y software.
Cheers, really appreciate the help,
Luis
--
Luis de Bethencourt Guimerá
luisbg
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Kristian Rink
lists@zimmer428.net
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 28, 2009 11:50 PM
in response to: luisbg
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Hi Luis, *;
though late, a few thoughts of mine to add:
Luis de Bethencourt schrieb:
[...]
> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
> the solutions.
- Generally, asides Time Slider I miss kind of a "killer feature" making me
think "wow, now _that_ is why I want OpenSolaris on the desktop". Sure,
there are a lot of applications (mostly related to system administration -
groups, permissions, network, ...) covering aspects special to OpenSolaris,
but as an end user, this might not be too much of interest, and asides this,
the desktop IMHO is "just another GNOME desktop" to be brutally honest
(especially if one doesn't want/need Time Slider).
- The amount of packages available in the IPS repositories is way too
limited. Actually, maybe this sounds ridiculous, but the one thing _really_
bothering me about OpenSolaris is that I have to go with GNOME in the
default installation and spend time and energy building my desktop of choice
(XFCE), along with some other applications (claws-mail, ...) from source,
which includes installing all the build tools prior to that and dealing with
a lot of small yet annoying issues with each new release of either one of
these apps or OpenSolaris. Ubuntu just wins here because, talking about
Xubuntu, I get what I need out of the box without too much ado. Same for
Fedora. Lack of "many" pre-built packages in my opinion is a major problem.
Here where I am, I usually am asked how to get most up-to-date KDE4 desktop
to work with OpenSolaris...
- The visual interface ("package manager") to IPS is, at least on my system
(Dual Core CPU, 2GHz, 2 GB RAM) horribly slow, no comparison to Ubuntu
synaptic or even the Fedora package manager. The command line based tool
works better but yet is not perfect and not something a "desktop end user"
wants. Along with this, package names and versions are, well, strange at
times: Searching for "the gimp", it took me a while to figure out the
package is named SUNWgnome-img-editor on OpenSolaris, and it took me even
longer to figure out which version of Gimp it actually provides - the
package version number
SUNWgnome-img-editor@0.5.11,5.11-0.111:20090508T155210Z
is of pretty little help here. This is painful at the very least to those
moving here from GNU/Linux or *BSD.
- As a full-time GNU/Linux user, I keep most of my data stored on an
external disk using an ext3 file system. Given these file systems are open
source altogether, I wonder why OpenSolaris can't mount any of these drives
"out of the box", simply while having it plugged in (Disclaimer: the last
time I tried this was in late 2008, not sure how lates releases do here).
This would be helpful. :)
> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
> missing X or Y software.
Well... looking at my history, in 1996 I dumped Windows in favor of Linux,
even though this rendered both my CD writer and my sound card unusable for
at least two years immediately. I wouldn't hesitate doing the same again for
OpenSolaris as the platform, in my opinion, generally is rather promising.
To me, at the moment the major problem is: I don't know what OpenSolaris
will be up to as soon as the Sun/Oracle merger has been done... This
uncertainty makes a "full-time adoption" rather difficult these days.
Cheers,
Kristian
--
Kristian Rink
http://pictorial.zimmer428.net # kawazu at jabber dot org
"What was once thought can never be unthought."
(Duerrenmatt - 'Die Physiker')
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Posts:
646
From:
NL
Registered:
5/15/07
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 29, 2009 1:55 AM
in response to: Kristian Rink
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On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:50:56 +0200
Kristian Rink <lists at zimmer428 dot net> wrote:
> Luis de Bethencourt schrieb:
> [...]
> > What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them
> > and try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we
> > find the solutions.
>
> - Generally, asides Time Slider I miss kind of a "killer feature"
> making me think "wow, now _that_ is why I want OpenSolaris on the
> desktop".
I disagree here. To ****he choice for OpenSolaris on the desktop comes
from the fact that I -WANT- the OS underneath to run on my systems. I
trust (open)solaris much more than I trust the linux kernel.
If I only wanted a nice, fast good looking desktop, I'd go for Ubuntu,
but as said I want OpenSolaris underneath.
> - The amount of packages available in the IPS repositories is way too
> limited. Lack of "many" pre-built packages in my opinion is a major
> problem. Here where I am, I usually am asked how to get most
> up-to-date KDE4 desktop to work with OpenSolaris...
This is absolutely true. Precompiled packages for much used programs
are lacking. I know it is still a young repo, but still.. It's a
disappointment for people coming i.e. from linux/*BSD
> - The visual interface ("package manager") to IPS is, at least on my
> system (Dual Core CPU, 2GHz, 2 GB RAM) horribly slow
Hmmm, that's personal I think. On my AMD64-4000+ (a much slower CPU) it
runs snappy enough. Not much difference with Ubuntu here.
> SUNWgnome-img-editor@0.5.11,5.11-0.111:20090508T155210Z
Nothing wrong with that, if at least the name "gimp" can be found in
the description ;-)
> is of pretty little help here. This is painful at the very least to
> those moving here from GNU/Linux or *BSD.
Naming of i.e. Debian packages is not clear either in some cases. I
guess this is something you have/can get used to.
> - As a full-time GNU/Linux user, I keep most of my data stored on an
> external disk using an ext3 file system. Given these file systems are
> open source altogether, I wonder why OpenSolaris can't mount any of
> these drives "out of the box", simply while having it plugged in
> (Disclaimer: the last time I tried this was in late 2008, not sure
> how lates releases do here). This would be helpful. :)
This one is VERY true. I personally think it's a shame that so few
filesystems can be mounted natively by any solaris flavour.
I keep a laptop with Ubuntu just for this wonderful connection thing.
Plugin whatever FS and it's not only been reckognized, but you can
actualy work with it! Read/write is no problem.
--
**** Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D
+ http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS 10u7 05/09 | OpenSolaris 2009.06 rel
+ All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol)
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Kristian Rink
lists@zimmer428.net
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 29, 2009 2:35 AM
in response to: shinsui
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**** hoogendijk schrieb:
>> - Generally, asides Time Slider I miss kind of a "killer feature"
>> making me think "wow, now _that_ is why I want OpenSolaris on the
>> desktop".
>
> I disagree here. To me the choice for OpenSolaris on the desktop comes
> from the fact that I -WANT- the OS underneath to run on my systems. I
> trust (open)solaris much more than I trust the linux kernel.
> If I only wanted a nice, fast good looking desktop, I'd go for Ubuntu,
> but as said I want OpenSolaris underneath.
Good (and IMHO valid) point. :) I think that however these are two different
user groups to be targeted here: Those who intentionally and consciously are
to choose OpenSolaris because they want _that_ very system and hope for a
good desktop on top (like you and me) on one side and, on the other side,
those who "just" want to have a feature-laden, fully-fledged desktop but
don't care much about the system running underneath. To the latter group, in
my opinion, desktop features unique to OpenSolaris would be a good thing.
But I generally agree with you about that.
[packages]
>> - The visual interface ("package manager") to IPS is, at least on my
>> system (Dual Core CPU, 2GHz, 2 GB RAM) horribly slow
>
> Hmmm, that's personal I think. On my AMD64-4000+ (a much slower CPU) it
> runs snappy enough. Not much difference with Ubuntu here.
Hmmm... strange. The last time I tried to install the whole java development
tooling chain (netbeans, glassfish, jdk, a few other things) and in the end
it rendered package-manager unusable (the UI not refreshing anymore,
apparently "nothing" happening for about an hour) until I eventually killed
it and used pkg instead. :)
>> SUNWgnome-img-editor@0.5.11,5.11-0.111:20090508T155210Z
>
> Nothing wrong with that, if at least the name "gimp" can be found in
> the description ;-)
Yes, the name "gimp", but also the version of "gimp" (2.4.6) would be pretty
good in here. ;)
>> is of pretty little help here. This is painful at the very least to
>> those moving here from GNU/Linux or *BSD.
>
> Naming of i.e. Debian packages is not clear either in some cases. I
> guess this is something you have/can get used to.
Basically yes, I agree, it's a matter of what one is used to. However I
think the Debian package namings in _most_ cases do have the advantage that
package names reflect the name of the "upstream" application packed in them.
"gimp" is packaged as "gimp". midnight commander ("mc") is packaged as "mc".
On OpenSolaris, "mc" comes packaged as SUNWgnu-mc. ;)
> This one is VERY true. I personally think it's a shame that so few
> filesystems can be mounted natively by any solaris flavour.
> I keep a laptop with Ubuntu just for this wonderful connection thing.
> Plugin whatever FS and it's not only been reckognized, but you can
> actualy work with it! Read/write is no problem.
I know what you mean. :) Plus, I want / need to have a file system which, at
least talking about r/o support, can be used in Windows to some extent and
supports large files (virtualbox images, self-built video clips, ...). Ext3
and some portable tool (explore2fs) at least work here. Regarding
communication between OpenSolaris and Windows, here, I yet have to see a
tool to meet this need. Writing NTFS on OpenSolaris? Even reading ZFS on
Windows? Linux-to-Solaris is no problem using ZFS, but Windows seems
completely out here...
Cheers,
Kristian
--
Kristian Rink
http://pictorial.zimmer428.net # kawazu at jabber dot org
"What was once thought can never be unthought."
(Duerrenmatt - 'Die Physiker')
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 5:13 AM
in response to: shinsui
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|
Hi,
> > - As a full-time GNU/Linux user, I keep most of my data stored on an
> > external disk using an ext3 file system. Given these file systems are
> > open source altogether, I wonder why OpenSolaris can't mount any of
> > these drives "out of the box", simply while having it plugged in
> > (Disclaimer: the last time I tried this was in late 2008, not sure
> > how lates releases do here). This would be helpful. :)
>
> This one is VERY true. I personally think it's a shame that so few
> filesystems can be mounted natively by any solaris flavour.
> I keep a laptop with Ubuntu just for this wonderful connection thing.
> Plugin whatever FS and it's not only been reckognized, but you can
> actualy work with it! Read/write is no problem.
>
So, who from you is participating on ext3 project? :-) There is ext2fs
driver at least. With bugs, of course. But fully opensource osol
project. The actual participants have limited time. And you do not need
to be "source coder", even documentation, testing, preparing e.g. PSARC
case materials are important for that project.
The other, very good project can be to look at Solaris VFS and do
cleanup there and expose VFS to some user space API (or to continue in
FUSE project at least).
Best regards,
Milan
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 5:20 AM
in response to: jurikm
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Milan Jurik schrieb:
> So, who from you is participating on ext3 project? :-) There is ext2fs
> driver at least. With bugs, of course. But fully opensource osol
> project. The actual participants have limited time. And you do not need
> to be "source coder", even documentation, testing, preparing e.g. PSARC
> case materials are important for that project.
Good to have the latter information, thanks. So far I kept myself from
subscribing there as I am by no means a kernel/driver hacker and wanted not
to disturb. Thanks for pointing this out. :)
Cheers,
Kristian
--
Kristian Rink
http://pictorial.zimmer428.net # kawazu at jabber dot org
"What was once thought can never be unthought."
(Duerrenmatt - 'Die Physiker')
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 5:31 AM
in response to: Kristian Rink
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Hi,
V čt, 30. 07. 2009 v 14:20, Kristian Rink píše:
> Milan Jurik schrieb:
>
> > So, who from you is participating on ext3 project? :-) There is ext2fs
> > driver at least. With bugs, of course. But fully opensource osol
> > project. The actual participants have limited time. And you do not need
> > to be "source coder", even documentation, testing, preparing e.g. PSARC
> > case materials are important for that project.
>
> Good to have the latter information, thanks. So far I kept myself from
> subscribing there
We are not dangerous :-)
> as I am by no means a kernel/driver hacker and wanted not
> to disturb. Thanks for pointing this out. :)
>
Bug reports are not disturbing :-) There are some important bugfixes in
source gate which are not in binary tarball and I am very busy for last
days. If somebody else is willing to create the new tarball, it will be
welcomed a lot.
Best regards,
Milan
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Kristian Rink
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 5:34 AM
in response to: jurikm
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Milan Jurik schrieb:
>> Good to have the latter information, thanks. So far I kept myself from
>> subscribing there
>
> We are not dangerous :-)
Good to know that. I'll not be nagging anyone I promise. :>
> Bug reports are not disturbing :-) There are some important bugfixes in
> source gate which are not in binary tarball and I am very busy for last
> days. If somebody else is willing to create the new tarball, it will be
> welcomed a lot.
I will have a look at the files; good to see there are binary builds to play
with - so far the very outline of setting up a source build environment
seemed too, well, "challenging" to consider doing it, but maybe it's a
matter of getting used to it. :)
K.
--
Kristian Rink
http://pictorial.zimmer428.net # kawazu at jabber dot org
"What was once thought can never be unthought."
(Duerrenmatt - 'Die Physiker')
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 5:32 AM
in response to: jurikm
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On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:13:26 +0200
Milan Jurik <Milan dot Jurik at Sun dot COM> wrote:
> > > - As a full-time GNU/Linux user, I keep most of my data stored on
> > > an external disk using an ext3 file system. Given these file
> > > systems are open source altogether, I wonder why OpenSolaris
> > > can't mount any of these drives "out of the box", simply while
> > > having it plugged in (Disclaimer: the last time I tried this was
> > > in late 2008, not sure how lates releases do here). This would be
> > > helpful. :)
> >
> > This one is VERY true. I personally think it**** shame that so few
> > filesystems can be mounted natively by any solaris flavour.
> > I keep a laptop with Ubuntu just for this wonderful connection
> > thing. Plugin whatever FS and it's not only been reckognized, but
> > you can actualy work with it! Read/write is no problem.
> >
>
> So, who from you is participating on ext3 project? :-)
You should not take it personally, Milan. I'm fully aware of your
limited time issue! I'm very greatful for osol as it is, BUT this
thread is about becoming better. I.m.h.o. interconenction between other
FS's would be very welcome. That's all. As I have very few skills in
this field I can't offer you very little. Testing. That's it. Writing
docs is for a non-native English writer not desirable, I think. ;-)
--
**** Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D
+ http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS 10u7 5/09 | OpenSolaris 2009.06 rel
+ All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol)
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 7:03 AM
in response to: shinsui
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Hi ****,
V čt, 30. 07. 2009 v 14:32, **** hoogendijk píše:
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:13:26 +0200
> Milan Jurik <Milan dot Jurik at Sun dot COM> wrote:
>
> > > > - As a full-time GNU/Linux user, I keep most of my data stored on
> > > > an external disk using an ext3 file system. Given these file
> > > > systems are open source altogether, I wonder why OpenSolaris
> > > > can't mount any of these drives "out of the box", simply while
> > > > having it plugged in (Disclaimer: the last time I tried this was
> > > > in late 2008, not sure how lates releases do here). This would be
> > > > helpful. :)
> > >
> > > This one is VERY true. I personally think it's a shame that so few
> > > filesystems can be mounted natively by any solaris flavour.
> > > I keep a laptop with Ubuntu just for this wonderful connection
> > > thing. Plugin whatever FS and it's not only been reckognized, but
> > > you can actualy work with it! Read/write is no problem.
> > >
> >
> > So, who from you is participating on ext3 project? :-)
>
> You should not take it personally, Milan.
And do not take it offensive from me :-)
> I'm fully aware of your
> limited time issue! I'm very greatful for osol as it is, BUT this
> thread is about becoming better. I.m.h.o. interconenction between other
> FS's would be very welcome. That's all.
Yes, interconnection between OSes are important for developers. But it
is not easy every time. Not all FS have documented on-disk format.
Ext2/ext3 is good exception, but amount of developers is limited :-)
> As I have very few skills in
> this field I can't offer you very little. Testing. That's it. Writing
> docs is for a non-native English writer not desirable, I think. ;-)
>
It is desirable ;-)
Best regards,
Milan
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Shawn Walker
swalker@opensolaris....
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 29, 2009 11:00 AM
in response to: Kristian Rink
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Kristian Rink wrote:
> - The visual interface ("package manager") to IPS is, at least on my system
> (Dual Core CPU, 2GHz, 2 GB RAM) horribly slow, no comparison to Ubuntu
> synaptic or even the Fedora package manager. The command line based tool
> works better but yet is not perfect and not something a "desktop end user"
> wants. Along with this, package names and versions are, well, strange at
> times: Searching for "the gimp", it took me a while to figure out the
> package is named SUNWgnome-img-editor on OpenSolaris, and it took me even
> longer to figure out which version of Gimp it actually provides - the
> package version number
>
> SUNWgnome-img-editor@0.5.11,5.11-0.111:20090508T155210Z
The package names will be changed "soon", you can see a preview of them
here:
http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/attachment.cgi?id=2144
http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=6186
http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=8123
As for package versions, those are going to be changed too in many
places to reflect the underlying software. Most of what you see with
the package names and versions reflects older practices from the
previous packaging system.
Cheers,
--
Shawn Walker
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Kristian Rink
lists@zimmer428.net
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 29, 2009 11:12 PM
in response to: Shawn Walker
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Shawn;
Shawn Walker schrieb:
> The package names will be changed "soon", you can see a preview of them
> here:
> http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/attachment.cgi?id=2144
> http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=6186
> http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=8123
Thanks for pointing me there; this seems indeed quite an improvement. :)
> As for package versions, those are going to be changed too in many
> places to reflect the underlying software. Most of what you see with
> the package names and versions reflects older practices from the
> previous packaging system.
Yes, that's what I thought comparing "older" Solarises with the IPS
packages. But maybe changing these things indeed is a longer, slow-running
process, same as eventually setting up a blastwave repository that doesn't
provide another libgtk+ and another libgnome and a whole load of packages
which are in "core" OpenSolaris already.
Once in a while one (=me) tends to forget, here, that most of the GNU/Linux
packaging systems have virtually been built from scratch with no need for
backward compatibility in any possible way which just doesn't seem the case
for (Open)Solaris which has been around for quite a while... :)
K.
--
Kristian Rink
http://pictorial.zimmer428.net # kawazu at jabber dot org
"What was once thought can never be unthought."
(Duerrenmatt - 'Die Physiker')
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 11:33 PM
in response to: Kristian Rink
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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|
> Yes, that's what I thought comparing "older"
> Solarises with the IPS
> packages. But maybe changing these things indeed is a
> longer, slow-running
> process, same as eventually setting up a blastwave
> repository that doesn't
> provide another libgtk+ and another libgnome and a
> whole load of packages
> which are in "core" OpenSolaris already.
Macports on the Mac does that too - duplicating some open-source packages
that come with the OS, that is. I gather they want to update faster, but more
than that, they want guarantees that what they have will satisfy all the other
dependencies.
The dependency hell among open source is very ugly. I would not want to
be a distro creator/maintainer; one has to make choices that sometimes
nobody will like.
I wonder if the constant use of Ubuntu as the standard is helpful.
Solaris (and OpenSolaris as the base from which Solaris is built maybe)
is all about stability, not bleeding edge kewlness. Maybe DeadRat, er, I mean
Red Hat (and Fedora) is a more realistic comparison.
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Laszlo (Laca) P...
Laszlo.Peter@Sun.COM
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 12:46 AM
in response to: Shawn Walker
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> > SUNWgnome-img-editor@0.5.11,5.11-0.111:20090508T155210Z
> The package names will be changed "soon"
BTW, there was method in this madness. By the time we first
integrated GNOME into Solaris, we were already running the 3rd
window manager (sawmill -> sawfish -> metacity), also, various
libraries got merged or split all the time (gnome-libs -> libgnome*)
so we the idea was to simplify our packaging by using stable
package names that describe the functionality rather than the
community module name. So {saw{fish,mill},metacity} became
SUNWgnome-wm and the various platform libs were still in
SUNWgnome-libs even after they were split in the community.
There was also a desire to reduce the number of packages delivered
(CDE was only a handful of packages) because SVr4 packaging
struggled under too many individual packages (because it had
to constantly rewrite /var/sadm/install/contents).
Laca, from the history department ;)
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Kristian Rink
lists@zimmer428.net
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 1:57 AM
in response to: Laszlo (Laca) P...
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Laszlo (Laca) Peter schrieb:
[...]
> community module name. So {saw{fish,mill},metacity} became
> SUNWgnome-wm and the various platform libs were still in
> SUNWgnome-libs even after they were split in the community.
This, generally, sounds reasonable from a "package naming consistency" point
of view. However, especially regarding the situation you outlined: I
remember right this time of transition sawfish -> metacity, when some people
already wanted to adopt metacity whereas others still wanted to stay with
what they grew to know / like. From that point of view, a "generic" name
like SUNWgnome-wm is not really helpful as it makes figuring out what
actually is inside unnecessarily difficult. :)
K.
--
Kristian Rink
http://pictorial.zimmer428.net # kawazu at jabber dot org
"What was once thought can never be unthought."
(Duerrenmatt - 'Die Physiker')
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 8:44 AM
in response to: Laszlo (Laca) P...
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>>> SUNWgnome-img-editor@0.5.11,5.11-0.111:20090508T155210Z
>> The package names will be changed "soon"
>
> BTW, there was method in this madness. By the time we first
> integrated GNOME into Solaris, we were already running the 3rd
> window manager (sawmill -> sawfish -> metacity), also, various
> libraries got merged or split all the time (gnome-libs -> libgnome*)
> so we the idea was to simplify our packaging by using stable
> package names that describe the functionality rather than the
> community module name. So {saw{fish,mill},metacity} became
> SUNWgnome-wm and the various platform libs were still in
> SUNWgnome-libs even after they were split in the community.
> There was also a desire to reduce the number of packages delivered
> (CDE was only a handful of packages) because SVr4 packaging
> struggled under too many individual packages (because it had
> to constantly rewrite /var/sadm/install/contents).
Another motivation for bundling modules into generically named packages
was because normally package names are defined as "Uncommitted" by ARC,
and therefore should go through the EOL process when removed. You
avoid the need to EOL the package name interfaces when you reuse them.
It also makes things a bit more simple for handling package
dependencies. Using the window manager example, if there are many
packages that depend on the window manager, it is a bit easier to
manage those dependencies if the GNOME window manager package name
doesn't change. It can, for example, cause issues for 3rd party
ISV's if the packages they depend on go through name changes.
There are pros and cons to either approach. However, I think the
current consensus is that it is better for each package to map to a
single module, and for the package name to map to the module name.
Brian
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 9:53 AM
in response to: yippi
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I think some other package management systems (such as Debian's apt) have
virtual packages to address this need. For instance, in some cases the ssh
package was renamed to openssh-client, so ssh is just a virtual package that
is satisfied by openssh-client. Perhaps IPS could have virtual package
functionality, if it doesn't already? It probably won't address all the
issues that have been brought up, but it does address the package dependency
issue to an extent.
William Yang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: desktop-discuss-bounces at opensolaris dot org [mailto:desktop-discuss-
> bounces at opensolaris dot org] On Behalf Of Brian Cameron
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:45 AM
> To: laca at Sun dot COM
> Cc: Luis de Bethencourt; desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> Subject: Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
>
>
> >>> SUNWgnome-img-editor@0.5.11,5.11-0.111:20090508T155210Z
> >> The package names will be changed "soon"
> >
> > BTW, there was method in this madness. By the time we first
> > integrated GNOME into Solaris, we were already running the 3rd
> > window manager (sawmill -> sawfish -> metacity), also, various
> > libraries got merged or split all the time (gnome-libs -> libgnome*)
> > so we the idea was to simplify our packaging by using stable
> > package names that describe the functionality rather than the
> > community module name. So {saw{fish,mill},metacity} became
> > SUNWgnome-wm and the various platform libs were still in
> > SUNWgnome-libs even after they were split in the community.
> > There was also a desire to reduce the number of packages delivered
> > (CDE was only a handful of packages) because SVr4 packaging
> > struggled under too many individual packages (because it had
> > to constantly rewrite /var/sadm/install/contents).
>
> Another motivation for bundling modules into generically named packages
> was because normally package names are defined as "Uncommitted" by ARC,
> and therefore should go through the EOL process when removed. You
> avoid the need to EOL the package name interfaces when you reuse them.
>
> It also makes things a bit more simple for handling package
> dependencies. Using the window manager example, if there are many
> packages that depend on the window manager, it is a bit easier to
> manage those dependencies if the GNOME window manager package name
> doesn't change. It can, for example, cause issues for 3rd party
> ISV's if the packages they depend on go through name changes.
>
> There are pros and cons to either approach. However, I think the
> current consensus is that it is better for each package to map to a
> single module, and for the package name to map to the module name.
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> desktop-discuss mailing list
> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Shawn Walker
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 10:20 AM
in response to: ywlke287
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|
William Yang wrote:
> I think some other package management systems (such as Debian's apt) have
> virtual packages to address this need. For instance, in some cases the ssh
> package was renamed to openssh-client, so ssh is just a virtual package that
> is satisfied by openssh-client. Perhaps IPS could have virtual package
> functionality, if it doesn't already? It probably won't address all the
> issues that have been brought up, but it does address the package dependency
> issue to an extent.
Essentially, yes. However, this just clutters the package namespace and
search results with extra packages that contain no useful content. It
also has a cost in management and processing overhead.
The single package solution is the most efficient one, and it is less
prone to error.
--
Shawn Walker
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 29, 2009 8:23 AM
in response to: luisbg
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
|
|
Better flash support? Maybe we just need better communication with adobe. For example, while youtube does work, hulu.com (free and legal access to many TV shows and movies) doesn't seem to work on my updated 2009.06 system, even though it used to work. Amazon Video-on-Demand (formerly Unbox) has never worked. You can test it for free as well, since most shows seem to have sample clips available.
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 7:10 AM
in response to: luisbg
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Hi,
if this question is about applications, why not have somewhere (juicer?)
place for submitting only "requests for packages"? Something like
"Wanted packages list"? For now they could submit RFE to bugster but the
interface is not friendly to manage for people outside of Sun. Packagers
can take inspiration from such list.
Best regards,
Milan
V út, 28. 07. 2009 v 16:30, Luis de Bethencourt píše:
> Hello everyone!
>
> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>
> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
> the solutions.
>
> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
> missing X or Y software.
>
> Cheers, really appreciate the help,
>
> Luis
>
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 8:54 AM
in response to: jurikm
|
|
Luis:
I think this thread has generated a lot of interesting responses.
However, I think this discussion would be more productive if we were
to clarify what types of users OpenSolaris should or could be targeting.
For example, using GNOME with the Sun Ray product seems a perfect fit
for educational institutions, libraries, hospitals, hotels, public
kiosks, etc. Now that Sun Ray has finally migrated to an Xorg based
Xserver, accessibility is working much better with GNOME on Sun Ray. I
would think that such accessibility support would make OpenSolaris
with Sun Ray even more attractive to places like schools.
However, OpenSolaris is probably lacking a lot of software that would
help make it attractive to these sorts of users. There is very little
educational software available, for example. Also not many games that
might make OpenSoalris attractive to a younger audience. There is a lot
of educational and game free software out there, but nobody has ported
them to OpenSolaris yet.
I'd think there would be value in exploring what sorts of programs
we should consider making available in OpenSolaris to make it more
attractive to a wider audience, not just the normal developer or
office worker use cases which are pretty well addressed with OpenSolaris
today.
Brian
> V út, 28. 07. 2009 v 16:30, Luis de Bethencourt píše:
>> Hello everyone!
>>
>> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
>> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
>> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
>> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>>
>> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
>> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
>> the solutions.
>>
>> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
>> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
>> missing X or Y software.
>>
>> Cheers, really appreciate the help,
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
|
|
|
|
|
Bob Doolittle
Robert.Doolittle@Sun...
|
|
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 10:19 AM
in response to: yippi
|
|
Brian Cameron wrote:
>
> Luis:
>
> I think this thread has generated a lot of interesting responses.
> However, I think this discussion would be more productive if we were
> to clarify what types of users OpenSolaris should or could be targeting.
>
> For example, using GNOME with the Sun Ray product seems a perfect fit
> for educational institutions, libraries, hospitals, hotels, public
> kiosks, etc. Now that Sun Ray has finally migrated to an Xorg based
> Xserver, accessibility is working much better with GNOME on Sun Ray. I
> would think that such accessibility support would make OpenSolaris
> with Sun Ray even more attractive to places like schools.
I think something like xautolock would be very helpful to bring in:
http://freshmeat.net/projects/xautolock/
This is often helpful in multi-user (e.g. Sun Ray) environments like
Enterprise where sometimes admins want to configure sessions to be
terminated if they have been idle for some period of time (personally
I've always found that a heavy-handed policy but some customers want
it). Although the current implementation is usable, it could do with
some work to minimize its resource consumption (e.g. no spin loops, more
event-driven logic) and make it friendlier to multi-user systems. I
haven't looked at the source in a few years, perhaps it has improved.
Here's a recipe for using it in Sun Ray environments:
http://wiki.sun-rays.org/index.php/Idle_Session_Kill
There are better ways to integrate such functionality into the desktop
(it would be cool if gdm or gnome-session could be configured to do
this), but this has the advantage of existing today :)
-Bob
>
> However, OpenSolaris is probably lacking a lot of software that would
> help make it attractive to these sorts of users. There is very little
> educational software available, for example. Also not many games that
> might make OpenSoalris attractive to a younger audience. There is a lot
> of educational and game free software out there, but nobody has ported
> them to OpenSolaris yet.
>
> I'd think there would be value in exploring what sorts of programs
> we should consider making available in OpenSolaris to make it more
> attractive to a wider audience, not just the normal developer or
> office worker use cases which are pretty well addressed with OpenSolaris
> today.
>
> Brian
>
>
>> V út, 28. 07. 2009 v 16:30, Luis de Bethencourt píše:
>>> Hello everyone!
>>>
>>> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
>>> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
>>> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
>>> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>>>
>>> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
>>> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
>>> the solutions.
>>>
>>> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
>>> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
>>> missing X or Y software.
>>>
>>> Cheers, really appreciate the help,
> _______________________________________________
> desktop-discuss mailing list
> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
109
From:
Registered:
4/21/07
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 10:41 AM
in response to: Bob Doolittle
|
|
I think xlockmore could also be useful (an enhanced xlock). xlockmore has two other options, useful when combined with xautolock:
1. terminate the session after being locked for x minutes
2. same as #1, except enable a "terminate session" button instead of automatically terminating
It also allows root to unlock the display. xscreensaver only does this if you don't use PAM or if you compile with the Sun patches (i.e. vanilla xscreensaver with PAM doesn't work, last I tried).
William Yang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: desktop-discuss-bounces at opensolaris dot org [mailto:desktop-discuss-
> bounces at opensolaris dot org] On Behalf Of Bob Doolittle
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:20 PM
> To: Brian Cameron
> Cc: Luis de Bethencourt; desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> Subject: Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
>
> I think something like xautolock would be very helpful to bring in:
> http://freshmeat.net/projects/xautolock/
>
> This is often helpful in multi-user (e.g. Sun Ray) environments like
> Enterprise where sometimes admins want to configure sessions to be
> terminated if they have been idle for some period of time (personally
> I've always found that a heavy-handed policy but some customers want
> it). Although the current implementation is usable, it could do with
> some work to minimize its resource consumption (e.g. no spin loops, more
> event-driven logic) and make it friendlier to multi-user systems. I
> haven't looked at the source in a few years, perhaps it has improved.
>
> Here's a recipe for using it in Sun Ray environments:
> http://wiki.sun-rays.org/index.php/Idle_Session_Kill
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Bob Doolittle
Robert.Doolittle@Sun...
|
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 10:48 AM
in response to: Bob Doolittle
|
|
Oh - and x11vnc is a "must-have" in any multi-user environment!
-Bob
Bob Doolittle wrote:
> Brian Cameron wrote:
>>
>> Luis:
>>
>> I think this thread has generated a lot of interesting responses.
>> However, I think this discussion would be more productive if we were
>> to clarify what types of users OpenSolaris should or could be targeting.
>>
>> For example, using GNOME with the Sun Ray product seems a perfect fit
>> for educational institutions, libraries, hospitals, hotels, public
>> kiosks, etc. Now that Sun Ray has finally migrated to an Xorg based
>> Xserver, accessibility is working much better with GNOME on Sun Ray. I
>> would think that such accessibility support would make OpenSolaris
>> with Sun Ray even more attractive to places like schools.
>
> I think something like xautolock would be very helpful to bring in:
> http://freshmeat.net/projects/xautolock/
>
> This is often helpful in multi-user (e.g. Sun Ray) environments like
> Enterprise where sometimes admins want to configure sessions to be
> terminated if they have been idle for some period of time (personally
> I've always found that a heavy-handed policy but some customers want
> it). Although the current implementation is usable, it could do with
> some work to minimize its resource consumption (e.g. no spin loops,
> more event-driven logic) and make it friendlier to multi-user systems.
> I haven't looked at the source in a few years, perhaps it has improved.
>
> Here's a recipe for using it in Sun Ray environments:
> http://wiki.sun-rays.org/index.php/Idle_Session_Kill
>
> There are better ways to integrate such functionality into the desktop
> (it would be cool if gdm or gnome-session could be configured to do
> this), but this has the advantage of existing today :)
>
> -Bob
>
>>
>> However, OpenSolaris is probably lacking a lot of software that would
>> help make it attractive to these sorts of users. There is very little
>> educational software available, for example. Also not many games that
>> might make OpenSoalris attractive to a younger audience. There is a lot
>> of educational and game free software out there, but nobody has ported
>> them to OpenSolaris yet.
>>
>> I'd think there would be value in exploring what sorts of programs
>> we should consider making available in OpenSolaris to make it more
>> attractive to a wider audience, not just the normal developer or
>> office worker use cases which are pretty well addressed with OpenSolaris
>> today.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>> V út, 28. 07. 2009 v 16:30, Luis de Bethencourt píše:
>>>> Hello everyone!
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
>>>> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
>>>> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
>>>> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>>>>
>>>> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
>>>> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
>>>> the solutions.
>>>>
>>>> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
>>>> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
>>>> missing X or Y software.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, really appreciate the help,
>> _______________________________________________
>> desktop-discuss mailing list
>> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>
>
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
|
|
|
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Posts:
5,507
From:
US
Registered:
3/9/05
|
|
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 12:48 PM
in response to: Bob Doolittle
|
|
Bob Doolittle wrote:
> Oh - and x11vnc is a "must-have" in any multi-user environment!
What's the difference between that and the Vino already in Solaris GNOME,
other than being less integrated to the GNOME environment?
--
-Alan Coopersmith- alan dot coopersmith at sun dot com
Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Bob Doolittle
Robert.Doolittle@Sun...
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 1:23 PM
in response to: alanc
|
|
Alan Coopersmith wrote:
> Bob Doolittle wrote:
>
>> Oh - and x11vnc is a "must-have" in any multi-user environment!
>>
> What's the difference between that and the Vino already in Solaris GNOME,
> other than being less integrated to the GNOME environment?
>
I was unaware of Vino. Thanks for the pointer, it looks promising.
-Bob
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
5,507
From:
US
Registered:
3/9/05
|
|
|
|
Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 1:26 PM
in response to: Bob Doolittle
|
|
Bob Doolittle wrote:
> Alan Coopersmith wrote:
>> Bob Doolittle wrote:
>>
>>> Oh - and x11vnc is a "must-have" in any multi-user environment!
>>>
>> What's the difference between that and the Vino already in Solaris GNOME,
>> other than being less integrated to the GNOME environment?
>>
>
> I was unaware of Vino. Thanks for the pointer, it looks promising.
It's the service underlying System -> Preferences -> Desktop Sharing in
the OpenSolaris GNOME menus.
For the benefit of others on the list/searching the archives, some pointers
from Brian Cameron:
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=194101
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VNC/Servers
--
-Alan Coopersmith- alan dot coopersmith at sun dot com
Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
3
From:
AU
Registered:
7/26/09
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 31, 2009 2:55 AM
in response to: Bob Doolittle
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
|
|
Hi Bob,
I've just tested Vino on OpenSolaris 2009.06 (updated to latest dev packages aka snv 118) with SRS 5 EA1 and it seems to work OK ...probably thanks to some work done here: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=319798
Regards,
Peter
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Posts:
1,119
From:
Registered:
7/27/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 31, 2009 12:07 PM
in response to: Bob Doolittle
|
|
Bob:
> I think something like xautolock would be very helpful to bring in:
> http://freshmeat.net/projects/xautolock/
I just added SFExautolock.spec to the spec-files-extra repository so
people can start building and testing it out. If we find it meets
our needs, we can consider actually integrating it later.
Brian
> This is often helpful in multi-user (e.g. Sun Ray) environments like
> Enterprise where sometimes admins want to configure sessions to be
> terminated if they have been idle for some period of time (personally
> I've always found that a heavy-handed policy but some customers want
> it). Although the current implementation is usable, it could do with
> some work to minimize its resource consumption (e.g. no spin loops, more
> event-driven logic) and make it friendlier to multi-user systems. I
> haven't looked at the source in a few years, perhaps it has improved.
>
> Here's a recipe for using it in Sun Ray environments:
> http://wiki.sun-rays.org/index.php/Idle_Session_Kill
>
> There are better ways to integrate such functionality into the desktop
> (it would be cool if gdm or gnome-session could be configured to do
> this), but this has the advantage of existing today :)
>
> -Bob
>
>>
>> However, OpenSolaris is probably lacking a lot of software that would
>> help make it attractive to these sorts of users. There is very little
>> educational software available, for example. Also not many games that
>> might make OpenSoalris attractive to a younger audience. There is a lot
>> of educational and game free software out there, but nobody has ported
>> them to OpenSolaris yet.
>>
>> I'd think there would be value in exploring what sorts of programs
>> we should consider making available in OpenSolaris to make it more
>> attractive to a wider audience, not just the normal developer or
>> office worker use cases which are pretty well addressed with OpenSolaris
>> today.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>> V út, 28. 07. 2009 v 16:30, Luis de Bethencourt píše:
>>>> Hello everyone!
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
>>>> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
>>>> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
>>>> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>>>>
>>>> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
>>>> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
>>>> the solutions.
>>>>
>>>> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
>>>> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
>>>> missing X or Y software.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, really appreciate the help,
>> _______________________________________________
>> desktop-discuss mailing list
>> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
|
|
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Posts:
43
From:
Dublin
Registered:
1/26/08
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 10:40 AM
in response to: yippi
|
|
Brian Cameron wrote:
>
> Luis:
>
> I think this thread has generated a lot of interesting responses.
I agree, and I want to let everybody know I'm listenting to all the
suggestions. I will create some place to store this ideas and
suggestions, probably a wiki so everybody can edit it them and add more.
Unfortunately I can't reply to all the topics of this thread, which has
been very useful. But don't be surprised if some of the things commented
become part of the development plans for 2009.02 release.
Thanks to everybody, keep on the constructive criticism!
\m/
Luis
> However, I think this discussion would be more productive if we were
> to clarify what types of users OpenSolaris should or could be targeting.
>
> For example, using GNOME with the Sun Ray product seems a perfect fit
> for educational institutions, libraries, hospitals, hotels, public
> kiosks, etc. Now that Sun Ray has finally migrated to an Xorg based
> Xserver, accessibility is working much better with GNOME on Sun Ray. I
> would think that such accessibility support would make OpenSolaris
> with Sun Ray even more attractive to places like schools.
>
> However, OpenSolaris is probably lacking a lot of software that would
> help make it attractive to these sorts of users. There is very little
> educational software available, for example. Also not many games that
> might make OpenSoalris attractive to a younger audience. There is a lot
> of educational and game free software out there, but nobody has ported
> them to OpenSolaris yet.
>
> I'd think there would be value in exploring what sorts of programs
> we should consider making available in OpenSolaris to make it more
> attractive to a wider audience, not just the normal developer or
> office worker use cases which are pretty well addressed with OpenSolaris
> today.
>
> Brian
>
>
>> V út, 28. 07. 2009 v 16:30, Luis de Bethencourt píše:
>>> Hello everyone!
>>>
>>> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
>>> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
>>> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
>>> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>>>
>>> What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
>>> try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
>>> the solutions.
>>>
>>> We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
>>> All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
>>> missing X or Y software.
>>>
>>> Cheers, really appreciate the help,
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
|
|
|
|
|
Che Kristo
che@opensolaris.org
|
|
|
|
Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 30, 2009 4:14 PM
in response to: luisbg
|
|
Thanks for asking for the feedback, very much appreciated On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 3:40 AM, Luis de Bethencourt <Luis dot Debethencourt at sun dot com> wrote:
Brian Cameron wrote:
Luis:
I think this thread has generated a lot of interesting responses.
Unfortunately I can't reply to all the topics of this thread, which has been very useful. But don't be surprised if some of the things commented become part of the development plans for 2009.02 release.
Thanks to everybody, keep on the constructive criticism!
\m/
Luis
However, I think this discussion would be more productive if we were
to clarify what types of users OpenSolaris should or could be targeting.
For example, using GNOME with the Sun Ray product seems a perfect fit
for educational institutions, libraries, hospitals, hotels, public kiosks, etc. Now that Sun Ray has finally migrated to an Xorg based
Xserver, accessibility is working much better with GNOME on Sun Ray. I
would think that such accessibility support would make OpenSolaris
with Sun Ray even more attractive to places like schools.
However, OpenSolaris is probably lacking a lot of software that would
help make it attractive to these sorts of users. There is very little
educational software available, for example. Also not many games that
might make OpenSoalris attractive to a younger audience. There is a lot
of educational and game free software out there, but nobody has ported
them to OpenSolaris yet.
I'd think there would be value in exploring what sorts of programs
we should consider making available in OpenSolaris to make it more
attractive to a wider audience, not just the normal developer or
office worker use cases which are pretty well addressed with OpenSolaris
today.
Brian
V út, 28. 07. 2009 v 16:30, Luis de Bethencourt píše:
Hello everyone!
I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
the solutions.
We all have made small sacrifices when we switched from other systems.
All the benefits of OpenSolaris shouldn't come with the cost of
missing X or Y software.
Cheers, really appreciate the help,
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
|
|
|
|
|
Posts:
1,300
From:
US
Registered:
4/21/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 4, 2009 1:38 PM
in response to: luisbg
|
|
Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
> Brian Cameron wrote:
>>
>> Luis:
>>
>> I think this thread has generated a lot of interesting responses.
Thanks Luis. This was a very useful thread.
Send the wiki pointer out when you have it or tack it on here:
http://wiki.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/contrib_repo_porting_list
Cheers,
Jim
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
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|
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Posts:
1,129
From:
US
Registered:
7/2/05
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|
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 31, 2009 11:52 AM
in response to: luisbg
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
|
|
>Luis said:
>What are these things? It would be great to make a listing of them and
>try to fix them. The better we know the problems the easier we find
>the solutions.
Luis,
Depends. You have a core distro which allows you to branch out into having a
custom distro which can be targeted to a Gamer , Student, SOHO, Musician,
Graphic artist, and science/engineering.
You can review if Pidgin, GIMP 2.6, StarOffice, Blender, Brasero/K3B or some
likely assortment fulfills our needs or having a wider 3D video drivers for
more ATI/Intel laptop user concerns. Things like Boomer usage and integration
with mixers and controls.
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Posts:
27
From:
CH
Registered:
7/12/09
|
|
|
|
Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Jul 31, 2009 4:01 PM
in response to: luisbg
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
|
|
I really like some features of OpenSolaris and I'm evaluating it for my small engineering company and for home.
For work I miss widely used engineering tools like octave, scilab, maxima, scipy (and company)
and office tools like freeswitch and/or asterisk, inkscape, scribus. Also, many people in the scientific world do use LaTeX.
An already mentioned area where a solution is needed is synchronization of contacts and calendar with the mobile phones and Google Apps.
For home I think a solution to provide a full set of audio and video codecs (mp3, wma, ...) should be found. As an example, on Ubuntu they also can't distribute proprietary codecs, but to install them it is a matter of adding a repository in the packaging system configuration file. And how to do this is well documented.
I know that some of these applications are coming in /pending (/contrib) and I look forward to use them. For others there are spec files (SFE), but if you are not a software developer this means installing all of the necessary tools and find out how to use them. This takes days if you do not have experience. It would be very helpful to be able to install them in a few seconds like in well known GNU/Linux distributions.
Fede
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Che Kristo
che@opensolaris.org
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 1, 2009 5:51 PM
in response to: beffa
|
|
You must not have googled for the audio & video codecs recently...for proprietary + supported go to:
for open source packages go to:
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Federico Beffa <beffa at ieee dot org> wrote:
I really like some features of OpenSolaris and I'm evaluating it for my small engineering company and for home.
For work I miss widely used engineering tools like octave, scilab, maxima, scipy (and company)
and office tools like freeswitch and/or asterisk, inkscape, scribus. Also, many people in the scientific world do use LaTeX.
An already mentioned area where a solution is needed is synchronization of contacts and calendar with the mobile phones and Google Apps.
For home I think a solution to provide a full set of audio and video codecs (mp3, wma, ...) should be found. As an example, on Ubuntu they also can't distribute proprietary codecs, but to install them it is a matter of adding a repository in the packaging system configuration file. And how to do this is well documented.
I know that some of these applications are coming in /pending (/contrib) and I look forward to use them. For others there are spec files (SFE), but if you are not a software developer this means installing all of the necessary tools and find out how to use them. This takes days if you do not have experience. It would be very helpful to be able to install them in a few seconds like in well known GNU/Linux distributions.
Fede
-- This message posted from opensolaris.org________________________________________ _______ _______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
221
From:
RS
Registered:
11/13/08
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 2, 2009 12:55 AM
in response to: Che Kristo
|
|
I would like to see awesomme window manager included in
standard repository. It very easy integrates with GNOME
and KDE excanging their standard WMs.
http://awesome.naquadah.org/
Uros
________________________________
> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:51:37 +1000
> From: che at opensolaris dot org
> To: beffa at ieee dot org
> CC: desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> Subject: Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
>
> You must not have googled for the audio & video codecs recently...for proprietary + supported go to:
>
> http://www.fluendo.com/
>
> for open source packages go to:
>
> http://solaris.homeunix.com/
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Federico Beffa> wrote:
>
> I really like some features of OpenSolaris and I'm evaluating it for my small engineering company and for home.
>
>
> For work I miss widely used engineering tools like octave, scilab, maxima, scipy (and company)
> and office tools like freeswitch and/or asterisk, inkscape, scribus. Also, many people in the scientific world do use LaTeX.
>
>
> An already mentioned area where a solution is needed is synchronization of contacts and calendar with the mobile phones and Google Apps.
>
> For home I think a solution to provide a full set of audio and video codecs (mp3, wma, ...) should be found. As an example, on Ubuntu they also can't distribute proprietary codecs, but to install them it is a matter of adding a repository in the packaging system configuration file. And how to do this is well documented.
>
>
> I know that some of these applications are coming in /pending (/contrib) and I look forward to use them. For others there are spec files (SFE), but if you are not a software developer this means installing all of the necessary tools and find out how to use them. This takes days if you do not have experience. It would be very helpful to be able to install them in a few seconds like in well known GNU/Linux distributions.
>
>
> Fede
>
> --
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> desktop-discuss mailing list
> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>
_________________________________________________________________
Share your memories online with anyone you want.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share.aspx?tab=1
_______________________________________________
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Posts:
221
From:
RS
Registered:
11/13/08
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 2, 2009 1:19 AM
in response to: Che Kristo
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It looks like XCB needed to compile awesome. So XCB has to be
put into the repo first:).
Uros
________________________________
> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:51:37 +1000
> From: che at opensolaris dot org
> To: beffa at ieee dot org
> CC: desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> Subject: Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
>
> You must not have googled for the audio & video codecs recently...for proprietary + supported go to:
>
> http://www.fluendo.com/
>
> for open source packages go to:
>
> http://solaris.homeunix.com/
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Federico Beffa> wrote:
>
> I really like some features of OpenSolaris and I'm evaluating it for my small engineering company and for home.
>
>
> For work I miss widely used engineering tools like octave, scilab, maxima, scipy (and company)
> and office tools like freeswitch and/or asterisk, inkscape, scribus. Also, many people in the scientific world do use LaTeX.
>
>
> An already mentioned area where a solution is needed is synchronization of contacts and calendar with the mobile phones and Google Apps.
>
> For home I think a solution to provide a full set of audio and video codecs (mp3, wma, ...) should be found. As an example, on Ubuntu they also can't distribute proprietary codecs, but to install them it is a matter of adding a repository in the packaging system configuration file. And how to do this is well documented.
>
>
> I know that some of these applications are coming in /pending (/contrib) and I look forward to use them. For others there are spec files (SFE), but if you are not a software developer this means installing all of the necessary tools and find out how to use them. This takes days if you do not have experience. It would be very helpful to be able to install them in a few seconds like in well known GNU/Linux distributions.
>
>
> Fede
>
> --
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> desktop-discuss mailing list
> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>
_________________________________________________________________
Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/events.aspx
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Posts:
806
From:
Registered:
9/26/08
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 5, 2009 7:05 AM
in response to: beffa
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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"I miss... office tools like freeswitch and/or asterisk"
@beffa
if you are looking for an Asterisk PBX package for Solaris go here:
http://www.solarisvoip.com/
the name says it all!
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Posts:
781
From:
Registered:
2/14/06
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 4, 2009 2:19 AM
in response to: luisbg
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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Some of the requested user applications are possible to run under wine or Virtualbox and Linux. Therefore I think those should not be prioritized, for instance, games. Instead, I would like to have things that are not portable nor easy to find a substitute:
-3D graphic driver for ATI cards
-power saving functionality, ability to manipulate the clock frequency of the CPU, ability to access hardware to read off CPU / GPU temperature, etc. The CPU goes wild in laptops I suspect. In Windows I just downclock the CPU and it quiets.
-Conky, which is a utility similar to gkrellm but much nicer. Both of these hardware monitoring utilities relies on functionality to access the hardware, I think? In short, eye candy for the desktop. Such as Compiz, Conky (Samurize clone), etc.
-As of now, there is no practical way of transporting large amounts of data (movies, MP3, etc) to friends, i.e. not possible to use an USB memory stick. My friends uses Windows. Hence, FAT32 drivers or NTFS drivers are needed. And both of the drivers have minisculous performance, a few 100 KB/sec. No useable. It is not possible to transport much data with OpenSolaris, as of now. File system issue. This also hurts VirtualBox USB devices.
-Codecs. I know some codecs are available, but the new switcher doesnt know they exist or how to get them.
-Some more packages in IPS. Updated Wine with Boomer support.
But, I think you SUN guys are doing a splendid job with the best OS. :o) I wish you lots of beer and sex.
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Che Kristo
che@opensolaris.org
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 4, 2009 3:13 AM
in response to: kebabber
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"Some of the requested user applications are possible to run under wine
or Virtualbox and Linux. Therefore I think those should not be
prioritized, for instance, games." I know this approach is OK for some but being able to run an application under Wine or Virtualbox should never be considered as an acceptable solution...sure with programs like MS Office where there is no chance of a native port but on the whole it adds too much complexity. Keep in mind that Solaris runs on Sparc and in the future ARM, Wine and Virtualbox won't be around for those platforms :-|
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Orvar Korvar <knatte_fnatte_tjatte at yahoo dot com> wrote:
Some of the requested user applications are possible to run under wine or Virtualbox and Linux. Therefore I think those should not be prioritized, for instance, games. Instead, I would like to have things that are not portable nor easy to find a substitute:
-3D graphic driver for ATI cards
-power saving functionality, ability to manipulate the clock frequency of the CPU, ability to access hardware to read off CPU / GPU temperature, etc. The CPU goes wild in laptops I suspect. In Windows I just downclock the CPU and it quiets.
-Conky, which is a utility similar to gkrellm but much nicer. Both of these hardware monitoring utilities relies on functionality to access the hardware, I think? In short, eye candy for the desktop. Such as Compiz, Conky (Samurize clone), etc.
-As of now, there is no practical way of transporting large amounts of data (movies, MP3, etc) to friends, i.e. not possible to use an USB memory stick. My friends uses Windows. Hence, FAT32 drivers or NTFS drivers are needed. And both of the drivers have minisculous performance, a few 100 KB/sec. No useable. It is not possible to transport much data with OpenSolaris, as of now. File system issue. This also hurts VirtualBox USB devices.
-Codecs. I know some codecs are available, but the new switcher doesnt know they exist or how to get them.
-Some more packages in IPS. Updated Wine with Boomer support.
But, I think you SUN guys are doing a splendid job with the best OS. :o) I wish you lots of beer and sex.
--
This message posted from opensolaris.org
_______________________________________________
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 4, 2009 5:13 AM
in response to: luisbg
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Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
> Hello everyone!
>
> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
>
gPodder (I have got this some what working)
Exaile
AWN Extras
Once I get those to work, I'll be happy.
--
Steve
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Posts:
168
From:
Registered:
7/2/09
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 4, 2009 6:02 PM
in response to: luisbg
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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|
> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris Desktop?
Cisco VPN client would be really nice.
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Sriram Narayanan
sriram@belenix.org
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 9:45 AM
in response to: shmerl
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On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Hillel Lubman<shtetldik at gmail dot com> wrote:
>> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris Desktop?
>
> Cisco VPN client would be really nice.
I use vpnc with my Cisco ASA and PIX servers.
Here are my instructions : http://dynamicproxy.livejournal.com/53689.html
> --
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> desktop-discuss mailing list
> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>
_______________________________________________
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desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
168
From:
Registered:
7/2/09
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 10:03 AM
in response to: Sriram Narayanan
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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VPNC requires .pcf file for configuration. Our admins use AnyConnect Cisco VPN client. I didn't find any .pcf coming with it.
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Sriram Narayanan
sriram@belenix.org
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 10:18 AM
in response to: shmerl
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On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Hillel Lubman<shtetldik at gmail dot com> wrote:
> VPNC requires .pcf file for configuration. Our admins use AnyConnect Cisco VPN client. I didn't find any .pcf coming with it.
vpnc supports SSL too. I've not got around to building that option
into vpnc on Belenix.
> --
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> desktop-discuss mailing list
> desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>
_______________________________________________
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Posts:
806
From:
Registered:
9/26/08
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 5, 2009 7:02 AM
in response to: luisbg
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
|
|
Kebabber said-
"As of now, there is no practical way of transporting large amounts of data (movies, MP3, etc) to friends, i.e. not possible to use an USB memory stick. My friends uses Windows. Hence, FAT32 drivers or NTFS drivers are needed."
I have some interesting news that will shock and surprise you Kebabber. An OpenSolaris distro called "Belenix" has had the ability to read NTFS and ext3 file systems for a couple of years now. Here are the instructions for porting this Belenix feature to SXDE or OpenSolaris 2008.05 if you want to give it a shot and maybe check to see if there are any bugs or other problems with it:
http://ritwikghoshal.blogspot.com/2008/04/today-i-mount-my-ntfs-partitions-in-my.html
If you look at the Belenix projects page here:
http://www.belenix.org/projects
You will see that the projects for reading NTFS and ext3 file systems on Solaris have already been implemented, and they've been implemented by Sun employees in India working on Belenix in their free time outside of Sun. Somehow the live CD feature got ported from Belenix to Indiana but the NTFS read feature didn't.
ALL WE NEED TO DO is find a brave soul who is willing to copy and paste what the Belenix developers did over a year and a half ago and add it as a feature in OpenSolaris Indiana.
Who is up to the task?
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Posts:
781
From:
Registered:
2/14/06
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 5, 2009 3:14 PM
in response to: system5
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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"I have some interesting news that will shock and surprise you".
"Hence, FAT32 drivers or NTFS drivers are needed. And [B]both[/B] of the drivers have minisculous performance, a few 100 KB/sec."
Ive tried the NTFS thingy you posted. Ive also tried ntfs-3g driver. And both give minisculous performance, a few 100kb/sec.
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Posts:
806
From:
Registered:
9/26/08
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 5, 2009 4:31 PM
in response to: kebabber
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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> Ive tried the NTFS thingy you posted.
> Ive also tried ntfs-3g driver. And both give minisculous performance,
> a few 100kb/sec.
Well, yes, I believe this is because they are user-space NTFS file system capabilities and not kernel space capabilities. It's still better than nothing though.
I'm always very hesitant about trying to add things or lobby for making drastic changes to the Solaris kernel because as long as the NTFS read is in user-space, you don't have to worry as much about a bug in the NTFS reader bringing the entire system down. How do you think OpenSolaris NTFS read/write and ext3 read/write should be implemented and how do you propose from preventing bugs in these subsystems from creating a "denial of service" condition that could affect the entire system?
I tend to like having new things bottled up and isolated for security and fault tolerance even if it does mean that there is a huge performance hit.
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Posts:
781
From:
Registered:
2/14/06
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Aug 6, 2009 9:25 AM
in response to: system5
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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I think the ntfs-3g driver installs itself into the kernel? Not sure on this, but I thought so?
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Posts:
3
From:
US
Registered:
8/23/07
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 7:41 AM
in response to: luisbg
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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Awesome thread! I found links to some applications that I was looking for. Thank you.
I would like to see a financial package, preferably GnuCash.
The ability manipulate the network settings. It seems to be a PIA to go from DHCP to a static address. I usually just run sys-unconfig right after the first boot.
When booting, an option to see what the system is doing. I like the flashy desktop, nice eye candy, but I would like to see what is actually happening.
I would like to see more multimedia applications, adour, soundfont, mixing like PulseAudio, etc. Jackd?
A GUI firewall like fwbuilder.
-JJ
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Posts:
988
From:
IE
Registered:
7/14/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 10:54 AM
in response to: jjthomas
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On 8 Sep 2009, at 15:41, Julian J Thomas wrote:
> The ability manipulate the network settings. It seems to be a PIA
> to go from DHCP to a static address.
The new NWAM GUI that's due to land in a few builds' time will make
this much easier (among many other improvements).
Cheeri,
Calum.
--
CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland
mailto:calum dot benson at sun dot com OpenSolaris Desktop Team
http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771
Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems
_______________________________________________
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Shawn Walker
swalker@opensolaris....
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 1:57 PM
in response to: jjthomas
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Julian J Thomas wrote:
> When booting, an option to see what the system is doing. I like the flashy desktop, nice eye candy, but I would like to see what is actually happening.
Press the 'ESC' key during boot, or change your the
rpool/boot/grub/menu.lst file and change the console=graphics, etc. options.
Cheers,
--
Shawn Walker
_______________________________________________
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Posts:
168
From:
Registered:
7/2/09
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 5:45 PM
in response to: Shawn Walker
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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Shawn Walker wrote:
> Press the 'ESC' key during boot, or change your the
> rpool/boot/grub/menu.lst file and change the console=graphics, etc. options.
Output there is pretty brief. Is there a way to make it more verbose?
Thanks.
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Shawn Walker
swalker@opensolaris....
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 5:49 PM
in response to: shmerl
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Hillel Lubman wrote:
> Shawn Walker wrote:
>
>> Press the 'ESC' key during boot, or change your the
>> rpool/boot/grub/menu.lst file and change the console=graphics, etc. options.
>
> Output there is pretty brief. Is there a way to make it more verbose?
Not that I know of; the output there is exactly what you'd see if
graphical boot wasn't active.
If you want to see more, you can check the /var/adm/messages file.
Cheers,
--
Shawn Walker
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
desktop-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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James C. McPher...
James.C.McPherson@gm...
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 6:05 PM
in response to: Shawn Walker
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Shawn Walker wrote:
> Hillel Lubman wrote:
>> Shawn Walker wrote:
>>
>>> Press the 'ESC' key during boot, or change your the
>>> rpool/boot/grub/menu.lst file and change the console=graphics, etc.
>>> options.
>>
>> Output there is pretty brief. Is there a way to make it more verbose?
>
> Not that I know of; the output there is exactly what you'd see if
> graphical boot wasn't active.
>
> If you want to see more, you can check the /var/adm/messages file.
or add
-v
to the end of the kernel$ line.....
James C. McPherson
--
Solaris kernel software engineer, system admin and troubleshooter
http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog
http://blogs.sun.com/jmcp
Find me on LinkedIn @ http://www.linkedin.com/in/jamescmcpherson
_______________________________________________
desktop-discuss mailing list
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Posts:
168
From:
Registered:
7/2/09
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 6:44 PM
in response to: James C. McPher...
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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>> If you want to see more, you can check the /var/adm/messages file.
> or add -v to the end of the kernel$ line.....
Thanks! That does it.
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Posts:
533
From:
CN
Registered:
8/11/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 7:01 PM
in response to: jjthomas
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On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 07:41 -0700, Julian J Thomas wrote:
>
> I would like to see a financial package, preferably GnuCash.
GnuCash was ever on our list, it was hold because of the missing
requirements.
All the requirements are integrated in on snv_122, I think it should
okay to start the integration process.
Thanks,
Halton.
_______________________________________________
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Posts:
529
From:
FR
Registered:
6/16/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 9, 2009 9:35 AM
in response to: jjthomas
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Julian J Thomas wrote:
> I would like to see more multimedia applications, adour, soundfont, mixing like PulseAudio, etc. Jackd?
>
for jack, look at opensound-discuss at opensolaris dot org, you have jack 1.9.2 now
_______________________________________________
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Posts:
22
From:
DE
Registered:
6/6/06
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 8, 2009 4:07 PM
in response to: luisbg
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
|
|
I honestly tell you, I do not miss anything while I am using CDE on Solaris.
This might sound strange to most people, but I have a very well designed CDE environment for my purposes. Everything looks clean and neat and technical. I am using antialiased fonts, my own high color scheme, my own high color icon set which replaces most of the ugly old ones. CDE is as colorful as you want it, and you get non-CDE programs to look all well integrated by defining appropriate Xdefaults. Though, it is a little work to get it there. I do not know why standards created on Unix were always shipped looking as ugly as possible and why nobody ever seemed to do something about it (maybe except some mad people like me).
I fell back to CDE after many annoying years with Gnome.
CDE is very fast (compared to Gnome), very stable, and complete:
There is a realplayer for multimedia (which is still the best player around, none of those Gnome or Java players on Solaris can compete with the perfect clear sound of the Helix engine up to now, at least on my boxes) and a flashplayer to integrate into firefox, there are command line tools for CD ripping and CD burning (which could be easily wrapped into a small Tcl/Tk program, for GUI integration). Well, there is firefox, thunderbird, NetBeans, Emacs, professional CAD programs and so on. Clearly it is still the #1 Unix desktop for seriously working people.
Everything that comes with Gnome is running slow and it crashes and wants you to fill bug reports. After changing some design elements, logging into a gnome-session next time will most probably freeze. And Gnome has an unsafe design by it's core design. No, I do not want all my applications to be able to talk to each other and over a network. Who guarantees there isn't a key logger in one of these ?
No, friends. Gnome is not better than KDE, which is not better than Windows.
I urgently ask this community to convince Sun ***not*** to stop shipping CDE.
Guys, you might just leave it in there as it is, without any support (not needed -- it is working). There are (secretly) hundreds of thousands of people who have other things to care about than trying out 10 different media players, browsers, mail clients, IDEs for Gnome, which are mostly simply not working at all.
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Posts:
143
From:
IN
Registered:
9/22/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 9, 2009 8:22 PM
in response to: khash
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A screenshot of the your CDE desktop would inspire some :)
-S
Karsten Hashimoto wrote:
> I honestly tell you, I do not miss anything while I am using CDE on Solaris.
>
> This might sound strange to most people, but I have a very well designed CDE environment for my purposes. Everything looks clean and neat and technical. I am using antialiased fonts, my own high color scheme, my own high color icon set which replaces most of the ugly old ones. CDE is as colorful as you want it, and you get non-CDE programs to look all well integrated by defining appropriate Xdefaults. Though, it is a little work to get it there. I do not know why standards created on Unix were always shipped looking as ugly as possible and why nobody ever seemed to do something about it (maybe except some mad people like me).
>
> I fell back to CDE after many annoying years with Gnome.
> CDE is very fast (compared to Gnome), very stable, and complete:
>
> There is a realplayer for multimedia (which is still the best player around, none of those Gnome or Java players on Solaris can compete with the perfect clear sound of the Helix engine up to now, at least on my boxes) and a flashplayer to integrate into firefox, there are command line tools for CD ripping and CD burning (which could be easily wrapped into a small Tcl/Tk program, for GUI integration). Well, there is firefox, thunderbird, NetBeans, Emacs, professional CAD programs and so on. Clearly it is still the #1 Unix desktop for seriously working people.
>
> Everything that comes with Gnome is running slow and it crashes and wants you to fill bug reports. After changing some design elements, logging into a gnome-session next time will most probably freeze. And Gnome has an unsafe design by it's core design. No, I do not want all my applications to be able to talk to each other and over a network. Who guarantees there isn't a key logger in one of these ?
>
> No, friends. Gnome is not better than KDE, which is not better than Windows.
>
> I urgently ask this community to convince Sun ***not*** to stop shipping CDE.
>
> Guys, you might just leave it in there as it is, without any support (not needed -- it is working). There are (secretly) hundreds of thousands of people who have other things to care about than trying out 10 different media players, browsers, mail clients, IDEs for Gnome, which are mostly simply not working at all.
>
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Posts:
22
From:
DE
Registered:
6/6/06
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 10, 2009 6:56 AM
in response to: ss39446
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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sure, see below ...
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Posts:
22
From:
DE
Registered:
6/6/06
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Oct 14, 2009 4:02 PM
in response to: ss39446
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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For cde-screenshot-orangesails.jpg
CDE's frontpanel configuration has been changed completely
and I think it looks neat, doesn't it ?
Further I used some nice icons sets from nimbus and other sources. Some of these icons are used in the frontpanel.
The CDE color style is an own one. Font is fixed everywhere. since it looks cleanest with CDE. The orangesails backdrop from JDS looked best with my colors,
so I sized it for my monitor and transformed it into an xpm for CDE.
Gtk-apps look well integrated due to a suitable
.gtkrc-2.0 (in terms of colors and fonts)
Last but not least, an OpenOffice startup script hack forces the use of my Gtk-theme, even when using OpenOffice
under CDE.
Thus, everythink looks pretty homogeneous.
Best thing is: everything runs extremely stable and fast.
So I personally prefer CDE still over everything else.
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Posts:
174
From:
US
Registered:
12/31/06
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 14, 2009 5:41 PM
in response to: luisbg
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On 07/28/09 10:30 AM, Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
> Hello everyone!
>
> I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in the OpenSolaris
> Desktop? We all have our small little things that we miss from the
> linux (rest of open source) world: this or that useful software that
> is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in FreeBSD.
What about features in Solaris (CDE) that are gone? I particularly
miss the old sdtperfmeter - the gnome meter is buggy and uses too
much of too many resources (memory, cpu, and real estate). Emulating
MSWindows can sometimes be a step in the wrong direction :).
How about the ability to navigate through the applications menu and
others by right clicking on the background? IMO what you get now is
useless.
Something else we seem to have lost is the ability to group windows
and drag/minimize/delete them as a group.
If you have more than a trivial number of windows open, the window
list becomes quite useless. In fact you could eliminate the panels
entirely by using the ability to click on the background with all
three mouse buttons. A sort of minimalist desktop :). Might be nice
to get rid of all those useless icons on the background as well...
Who hasn't lost a window by having it end up outside the visible
area? The Window selector should have a drag option much like
right-clicking on a window list icon does now.
Add these together and you'd have a nice icon free desktop. Right
click would give you the applications menu. Middle click would
give you the running list with the submenu min/max/move etc,. Left
click/drag would let you group. Just imagine, a completely blank
screen after you log in - right in the Unix tradition! Oh well...
Maybe I missed a configuration option, but how about not bringing
windows to the front unless you hit the front key or click on the
title bar? If you are copying and pasting from one window to another
it used to be easier because you could keep the source window on top.
The old CDE was pretty klutzy, but it did have some nice features...
The following has been much discussed, and I understand that the VT
feature has the same effect, but why not have a command line login
option? I suppose there are arcane reasons why not, but the inability
to kill gdm has had me frustrated a few times, and on Linux RHFC at
least the VT feature has been pretty unreliable.
Please don't go too far down the incomprehensible info (vs. man pages)
path. Fine if you are an Emacs expert, but a nightmare if not (439
lines in the commands list appendix!)...
Make the compose key work again (or is that another configuration
option?).
Finally (this has been discussed before) the ability to remember
what applications were running and to restart them on login. This
seemed to work quite well with CDE and there are other WMs that
can do it, but gnome lost the ability somewhere along the way...
My 10¢ worth...
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Posts:
1,582
From:
US
Registered:
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 14, 2009 6:07 PM
in response to: f.a.m
To: Communities » desktop » discuss
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> On 07/28/09 10:30 AM, Luis de Bethencourt wrote:
> > Hello everyone!
> >
> > I was wondering... what do you feel is missing in
> the OpenSolaris
> > Desktop? We all have our small little things that
> we miss from the
> > linux (rest of open source) world: this or that
> useful software that
> > is in Ubuntu, or that nice feature that is in
> FreeBSD.
>
> What about features in Solaris (CDE) that are gone? I
Without disagreeing, there were some features of the older OpenLook interface
that I _still_ miss; like default menu entries, and the ability to alter the default
with a ctrl-click; just unfortunate that (IIRC) it didn't save such changes to disk.
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Posts:
26
From:
IE
Registered:
6/14/05
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 14, 2009 11:19 PM
in response to: f.a.m
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Maybe these are viable options for you for two of you points.
>
> If you have more than a trivial number of windows open, the window
> list becomes quite useless. In fact you could eliminate the panels
> entirely by using the ability to click on the background with all
> three mouse buttons. A sort of minimalist desktop :). Might be nice
> to get rid of all those useless icons on the background as well...
You can, this is just what most people expect a desktop to do/have.
Personally I have no icons on the desktop at all. It just takes a
few seconds to update with gconftool or gconf-editor.
>
> Who hasn't lost a window by having it end up outside the visible
> area? The Window selector should have a drag option much like
> right-clicking on a window list icon does now.
Never had an entire window do this. There has always been some part of
it remaining even if this was just the border, in which case Alt+click
allows you to drag it back into view.
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Posts:
174
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US
Registered:
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Re: [desktop-discuss] what is missing in the OpenSolaris desktop?
Posted:
Sep 16, 2009 8:29 AM
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