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Replies:
5
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Last Post:
Nov 13, 2006 11:14 AM
by: iktorn
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Posts:
3,837
From:
JP
Registered:
4/6/05
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Language Project Open
Posted:
Nov 2, 2006 12:51 AM
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Ok, we're in business: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/portals/
So ... based on all the conversations we've had for the past three weeks
or so, *what* shall we start on first and *how* shall we start on it?
I started a little list of easy stuff we need:
* Leaders for the overall project to help create demand and process.
* Leaders for each region interested in doing translations.
* A leadership model to determine who gets access to what portal.
* A quality control mechanism.
* Technical specs regarding the templates and access to the site
* ?????
Please feel free to volunteer for any of these or bring up additional
issues or even question these issues as well. Some of you have already
signed on and expressed interest in previous threads, so I'll start
picking through those mails to generate a names list. But let's get a
thread going here, as well, and start adding to the project space, too.
I'm happy to add as many leaders to the project as necessary.
I see this community uses the genunix wiki. Do you want to use that for
flushing things out and assigning roles? Or just discuss things in
email? I don't care either way, to be honest. I'd like to post final
documents, or even working documents and names/contact info, to the
project space, too. This way we have a body of work that is archived.
This project can -- and should be -- pretty lightweight. We need to work
out a process and a leadership model *centrally* but then *distribute*
widely the task of translating and posting.
I know the Japanese team has already translated many pages already, and
there is interest from several other regions. Derek Cicero is working on
the template, but I'm not sure of all the technical specifications at
this time. Each template itself will have to be translated. So, more on
this shortly.
Jim
_______________________________________________
i18n-discuss mailing list
i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
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Posts:
50
From:
toronto
Registered:
7/22/05
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Re: Language Project Open
Posted:
Nov 2, 2006 9:18 AM
in response to: jimgris
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> So ... based on all the conversations we've had for the past three weeks
> or so, *what* shall we start on first and *how* shall we start on it?
Have we figured out whether language [ja.opensolaris.org] or country [jp.opensolaris.org]
based portals are more appropriate?
> I started a little list of easy stuff we need:
>
> * Leaders for the overall project to help create demand and process.
> * Leaders for each region interested in doing translations.
> * A leadership model to determine who gets access to what portal.
> * A quality control mechanism.
> * Technical specs regarding the templates and access to the site
I've read through the previous threads on this topic, and still am not entirely sure what
local users will see when they go to their own portal.
Initially - Will the English OS.o content simply be replicated on the new portals?
In cases where English OS.o content is translated, - linking back to the original content
would be useful.
Also - searching: will searching a language/country portal also yield results from English
OS.o?
Thanks,
~mm
> Please feel free to volunteer for any of these or bring up additional
> issues or even question these issues as well. Some of you have already
> signed on and expressed interest in previous threads, so I'll start
> picking through those mails to generate a names list. But let's get a
> thread going here, as well, and start adding to the project space, too.
> I'm happy to add as many leaders to the project as necessary.
>
> I see this community uses the genunix wiki. Do you want to use that for
> flushing things out and assigning roles? Or just discuss things in
> email? I don't care either way, to be honest. I'd like to post final
> documents, or even working documents and names/contact info, to the
> project space, too. This way we have a body of work that is archived.
>
> This project can -- and should be -- pretty lightweight. We need to work
> out a process and a leadership model *centrally* but then *distribute*
> widely the task of translating and posting.
>
> I know the Japanese team has already translated many pages already, and
> there is interest from several other regions. Derek Cicero is working on
> the template, but I'm not sure of all the technical specifications at
> this time. Each template itself will have to be translated. So, more on
> this shortly.
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> i18n-discuss mailing list
> i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
_______________________________________________
i18n-discuss mailing list
i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
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Posts:
3,837
From:
JP
Registered:
4/6/05
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Re: Language Project Open
Posted:
Nov 2, 2006 8:07 PM
in response to: mickm
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Hi ....
Michael Monaghan wrote On 11/03/06 02:18,:
>> So ... based on all the conversations we've had for the past three
>> weeks or so, *what* shall we start on first and *how* shall we start
>> on it?
>
>
> Have we figured out whether language [ja.opensolaris.org] or country
> [jp.opensolaris.org] based portals are more appropriate?
The Japanese team chose jp.opensolaris.org. And we have the urls for
multiple countries. We were going to use that model when we were
discussing this internally, but some others expressed interest in having
the language lead. I think I'd like to get more feedback on this issue
and then bring it up with the infrastructure team.
>> I started a little list of easy stuff we need:
>>
>> * Leaders for the overall project to help create demand and process.
>> * Leaders for each region interested in doing translations.
>> * A leadership model to determine who gets access to what portal.
>> * A quality control mechanism.
>> * Technical specs regarding the templates and access to the site
>
>
> I've read through the previous threads on this topic, and still am not
> entirely sure what local users will see when they go to their own portal.
Just look at the distinction between sun.com and jp.sun.com. Same basic
look/feel, much of the top level info is the same (product releases,
etc), but there is a significant amount of info specific to Japan. So,
when someone goes to jp.opensolairs.org they'll see the same look/feel
of the opensolairs.org, but it will be in Japanese -- FAQ, opening page,
links, icons, everything. The Japanese team will decide what to
translate into Japanese and then simply point to the rest of the info
that will stay in English. It may get translated over time, or it may
not. That's their decision. As a practical matter, over time, more and
more of what's necessary for Japanese OpenSolaris developers (or
whatever region) will be more visible. And, I'd like for them to have
the freedom to add info specific to developers in Japan that you can
only find on that portal. I want jp.opensolaris.org to grow into be
*the* place for Japanese OpenSolaris developers.
> Initially - Will the English OS.o content simply be replicated on the
> new portals?
Not sure what you mean here. Right now, all the urls we have simply
point to the English site, and those pages within those portals will get
translated over time. I don't see any replication process here.
> In cases where English OS.o content is translated, - linking back to the
> original content would be useful.
I think that each portal will have multiple areas where they link back
to the main site since the entire site will never be translated in
totality.
> Also - searching: will searching a language/country portal also yield
> results from English OS.o?
Really good question. Thanks for flagging that. I don't know how this
would work technically but I'll bring it up with Derek. But just
thinking out loud ... if I search for something specifically in Korean
or Russian I can't see how it would find the English references, and
searching for something in English will not find stuff written in kanji.
I suppose it would work that way if we were generating all these
translations from a centralized database, but we aren't. Each page a
region decides to translate will do so locally. If that page happens to
be updated, it will have to be updated manually locally.
> Thanks,
>
> ~mm
>
>
>> Please feel free to volunteer for any of these or bring up additional
>> issues or even question these issues as well. Some of you have already
>> signed on and expressed interest in previous threads, so I'll start
>> picking through those mails to generate a names list. But let's get a
>> thread going here, as well, and start adding to the project space,
>> too. I'm happy to add as many leaders to the project as necessary.
>>
>> I see this community uses the genunix wiki. Do you want to use that
>> for flushing things out and assigning roles? Or just discuss things in
>> email? I don't care either way, to be honest. I'd like to post final
>> documents, or even working documents and names/contact info, to the
>> project space, too. This way we have a body of work that is archived.
>>
>> This project can -- and should be -- pretty lightweight. We need to
>> work out a process and a leadership model *centrally* but then
>> *distribute* widely the task of translating and posting.
>>
>> I know the Japanese team has already translated many pages already,
>> and there is interest from several other regions. Derek Cicero is
>> working on the template, but I'm not sure of all the technical
>> specifications at this time. Each template itself will have to be
>> translated. So, more on this shortly.
>>
>> Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> i18n-discuss mailing list
>> i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> i18n-discuss mailing list
> i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
_______________________________________________
i18n-discuss mailing list
i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
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Posts:
50
From:
toronto
Registered:
7/22/05
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Re: Language Project Open
Posted:
Nov 7, 2006 2:53 PM
in response to: jimgris
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>> Also - searching: will searching a language/country portal also yield
>> results from English OS.o?
Hi Jim,
-->
> Really good question. Thanks for flagging that. I don't know how this
> would work technically but I'll bring it up with Derek. But just
> thinking out loud ... if I search for something specifically in Korean
> or Russian I can't see how it would find the English references,
On developer sites, from my experience, the most used search terms are
not translatable - say 'zfs' or 'zones' etc. So, often a say, Korean
user would use an 'English' search term. The translated site may or may
not have content pertaining to that term; but more than likely the
parent site will.
java.com handles this scenario quite nicely. [though their site is
obviously simpler, and all language content is hosted on a single domain].
Users of java.com can restrict searches to particular language
collections. - see attachment.
Something similar, if deemed of value, should be quite doable on
*.opensolaris.org
Anyway, I feel that however the language portals are implemented, users
in their quest for content should not have to jump to/from the parent
site and/or other language portals.
--
On another note, it doesn't appear as if any OS.o pages use keyword or
description meta tags.
~mm
> and
> searching for something in English will not find stuff written in kanji.
> I suppose it would work that way if we were generating all these
> translations from a centralized database, but we aren't. Each page a
> region decides to translate will do so locally. If that page happens to
> be updated, it will have to be updated manually locally.
>
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> ~mm
>>
>>
>>> Please feel free to volunteer for any of these or bring up additional
>>> issues or even question these issues as well. Some of you have
>>> already signed on and expressed interest in previous threads, so I'll
>>> start picking through those mails to generate a names list. But let's
>>> get a thread going here, as well, and start adding to the project
>>> space, too. I'm happy to add as many leaders to the project as
>>> necessary.
>>>
>>> I see this community uses the genunix wiki. Do you want to use that
>>> for flushing things out and assigning roles? Or just discuss things
>>> in email? I don't care either way, to be honest. I'd like to post
>>> final documents, or even working documents and names/contact info, to
>>> the project space, too. This way we have a body of work that is
>>> archived.
>>>
>>> This project can -- and should be -- pretty lightweight. We need to
>>> work out a process and a leadership model *centrally* but then
>>> *distribute* widely the task of translating and posting.
>>>
>>> I know the Japanese team has already translated many pages already,
>>> and there is interest from several other regions. Derek Cicero is
>>> working on the template, but I'm not sure of all the technical
>>> specifications at this time. Each template itself will have to be
>>> translated. So, more on this shortly.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> i18n-discuss mailing list
>>> i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> i18n-discuss mailing list
>> i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> i18n-discuss mailing list
> i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
_______________________________________________
i18n-discuss mailing list
i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
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Posts:
3,837
From:
JP
Registered:
4/6/05
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Re: Language Project Open
Posted:
Nov 9, 2006 11:37 PM
in response to: mickm
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Michael Monaghan wrote On 11/08/06 07:53,:
>>> Also - searching: will searching a language/country portal also yield
>>> results from English OS.o?
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> -->
>
>> Really good question. Thanks for flagging that. I don't know how this
>> would work technically but I'll bring it up with Derek. But just
>> thinking out loud ... if I search for something specifically in Korean
>> or Russian I can't see how it would find the English references,
>
>
> On developer sites, from my experience, the most used search terms are
> not translatable - say 'zfs' or 'zones' etc. So, often a say, Korean
> user would use an 'English' search term. The translated site may or may
> not have content pertaining to that term; but more than likely the
> parent site will.
Yes, and I just found out that they will be searched from the same
database so we should be covered for most search items.
> java.com handles this scenario quite nicely. [though their site is
> obviously simpler, and all language content is hosted on a single domain].
>
> Users of java.com can restrict searches to particular language
> collections. - see attachment.
> Something similar, if deemed of value, should be quite doable on
> *.opensolaris.org
Cool. Thanks for sending that. I'll show the website guys.
> Anyway, I feel that however the language portals are implemented, users
> in their quest for content should not have to jump to/from the parent
> site and/or other language portals.
I agree. In theory. :) If we are all searching and accessing the same
source we'll all find the same info but we will not all be able to read
everything. As the portals grow there will be more local content for
each given region. I'm ok with this (I actually would like to encourage
it) because that local content will be language bound anyway.
> On another note, it doesn't appear as if any OS.o pages use keyword or
> description meta tags.
> ~mm
I'll find out ....
>
>> and searching for something in English will not find stuff written in
>> kanji. I suppose it would work that way if we were generating all
>> these translations from a centralized database, but we aren't. Each
>> page a region decides to translate will do so locally. If that page
>> happens to be updated, it will have to be updated manually locally.
>>
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> ~mm
>>>
>>>
>>>> Please feel free to volunteer for any of these or bring up
>>>> additional issues or even question these issues as well. Some of you
>>>> have already signed on and expressed interest in previous threads,
>>>> so I'll start picking through those mails to generate a names list.
>>>> But let's get a thread going here, as well, and start adding to the
>>>> project space, too. I'm happy to add as many leaders to the project
>>>> as necessary.
>>>>
>>>> I see this community uses the genunix wiki. Do you want to use that
>>>> for flushing things out and assigning roles? Or just discuss things
>>>> in email? I don't care either way, to be honest. I'd like to post
>>>> final documents, or even working documents and names/contact info,
>>>> to the project space, too. This way we have a body of work that is
>>>> archived.
>>>>
>>>> This project can -- and should be -- pretty lightweight. We need to
>>>> work out a process and a leadership model *centrally* but then
>>>> *distribute* widely the task of translating and posting.
>>>>
>>>> I know the Japanese team has already translated many pages already,
>>>> and there is interest from several other regions. Derek Cicero is
>>>> working on the template, but I'm not sure of all the technical
>>>> specifications at this time. Each template itself will have to be
>>>> translated. So, more on this shortly.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> i18n-discuss mailing list
>>>> i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>>>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> i18n-discuss mailing list
>>> i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> i18n-discuss mailing list
>> i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> i18n-discuss mailing list
> i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
_______________________________________________
i18n-discuss mailing list
i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
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Posts:
204
From:
RU
Registered:
3/27/06
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Re: Language Project Open
Posted:
Nov 13, 2006 11:14 AM
in response to: jimgris
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Hi Jim,
As per-language sites are already there, I'm waiting for an opportunity
to start working on the Russian portal. Hope this week you'll be able to
catch up and this project will move on!
As another source of information about default search languages for
coming user we may use language preferences from browser language
preferences which I believe are passed to server in http headers
(although I may be wrong here).
Another idea is to implement a system for easy correction of typos. I
think whole site can benefit from this.
Wbr,
Victor
Jim Grisanzio wrote:
>
> Michael Monaghan wrote On 11/08/06 07:53,:
>>>> Also - searching: will searching a language/country portal also
>>>> yield results from English OS.o?
>>
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> -->
>>
>>> Really good question. Thanks for flagging that. I don't know how this
>>> would work technically but I'll bring it up with Derek. But just
>>> thinking out loud ... if I search for something specifically in
>>> Korean or Russian I can't see how it would find the English references,
>>
>>
>> On developer sites, from my experience, the most used search terms are
>> not translatable - say 'zfs' or 'zones' etc. So, often a say, Korean
>> user would use an 'English' search term. The translated site may or
>> may not have content pertaining to that term; but more than likely the
>> parent site will.
>
>
> Yes, and I just found out that they will be searched from the same
> database so we should be covered for most search items.
>
>
>
>> java.com handles this scenario quite nicely. [though their site is
>> obviously simpler, and all language content is hosted on a single
>> domain].
>>
>> Users of java.com can restrict searches to particular language
>> collections. - see attachment.
>> Something similar, if deemed of value, should be quite doable on
>> *.opensolaris.org
>
>
> Cool. Thanks for sending that. I'll show the website guys.
>
>> Anyway, I feel that however the language portals are implemented,
>> users in their quest for content should not have to jump to/from the
>> parent site and/or other language portals.
>
>
> I agree. In theory. :) If we are all searching and accessing the same
> source we'll all find the same info but we will not all be able to read
> everything. As the portals grow there will be more local content for
> each given region. I'm ok with this (I actually would like to encourage
> it) because that local content will be language bound anyway.
>
>
>
>> On another note, it doesn't appear as if any OS.o pages use keyword or
>> description meta tags.
>> ~mm
>
>
> I'll find out ....
>
>
>>
>>> and searching for something in English will not find stuff written in
>>> kanji. I suppose it would work that way if we were generating all
>>> these translations from a centralized database, but we aren't. Each
>>> page a region decides to translate will do so locally. If that page
>>> happens to be updated, it will have to be updated manually locally.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> ~mm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Please feel free to volunteer for any of these or bring up
>>>>> additional issues or even question these issues as well. Some of
>>>>> you have already signed on and expressed interest in previous
>>>>> threads, so I'll start picking through those mails to generate a
>>>>> names list. But let's get a thread going here, as well, and start
>>>>> adding to the project space, too. I'm happy to add as many leaders
>>>>> to the project as necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> I see this community uses the genunix wiki. Do you want to use that
>>>>> for flushing things out and assigning roles? Or just discuss things
>>>>> in email? I don't care either way, to be honest. I'd like to post
>>>>> final documents, or even working documents and names/contact info,
>>>>> to the project space, too. This way we have a body of work that is
>>>>> archived.
>>>>>
>>>>> This project can -- and should be -- pretty lightweight. We need to
>>>>> work out a process and a leadership model *centrally* but then
>>>>> *distribute* widely the task of translating and posting.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know the Japanese team has already translated many pages already,
>>>>> and there is interest from several other regions. Derek Cicero is
>>>>> working on the template, but I'm not sure of all the technical
>>>>> specifications at this time. Each template itself will have to be
>>>>> translated. So, more on this shortly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
_______________________________________________
i18n-discuss mailing list
i18n-discuss at opensolaris dot org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
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