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Replies:
4
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Last Post:
Jan 7, 2008 11:14 PM
by: rlhamil
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Posts:
330
From:
Mumbai, India
Registered:
10/8/05
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Where is the magic ?
Posted:
Jan 7, 2008 7:24 AM
To: OpenSolaris » discuss
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Hi everybody,
As an opening remark, let me say that I have been dealing with systems for sometime and have been monitoring OpenSolaris since its inception.
Although there are many nice things, I have been both puzzled and "awed" by one particular thing I have observed - the problem resolution process.
I have observed again and again[1], that whenever somebody posts a "problem", it is invariably replied with one or more of the following-
1. Bug number, explanation and possible course of action
2. Not a bug, link to document/explanation and correct way to accomplish what the user wants.
3. Explanation of ways to further nail down the root cause of bug (crash dump/kmdb etc), leading to either a bug filing or a straight one line bug number!!
Now, OpenSolaris/Solaris/SunOS is a consolidation of pretty big chunks of code. There are numerous interactions within and outside the system. This is aside from the fact that Solaris is pretty old and still evolving by the day! There are bound to be rough edges and cruft lying around.
I am mystified as how it is possible that so *many* people are working on this, and almost everybody has a firm grasp of the whole system!!! It is as if the *complete* system is a glassbox and everybody can see it through and through and identify where and how the system is acting up.
Now if it were just the work of one person, I could understand, but it is as if the whole work is hand-sculpted by whole team and even then everybody knows the whole picture! I have never seen anything like this, and frankly find it hard to believe.
So, thanks folks, you rock! But - goddamit - how do you do it ???
Is is a bug database with magical search capabilities ? Is it some piece of magical "process" ? Or is it that Sun somehow found the receipe to problem of scaling the competence ?
Regards
- Akhilesh
[1] Links to some of the examples:
(a) http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=48456&tstart=0
(b) http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=48026&tstart=0
(c) http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=47402&tstart=0
(d) http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=55192
and many more!!
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Posts:
241
From:
Registered:
8/30/06
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Re: Where is the magic ?
Posted:
Jan 7, 2008 7:37 AM
in response to: mritun
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On 1/7/08, Akhilesh Mritunjai <mritun+opensolaris at gmail dot com> wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> As an opening remark, let me say that I have been dealing with systems for sometime and have been monitoring OpenSolaris since its inception.
>
> Although there are many nice things, I have been both puzzled and "awed" by one particular thing I have observed - the problem resolution process.
>
> I have observed again and again[1], that whenever somebody posts a "problem", it is invariably replied with one or more of the following-
>
> 1. Bug number, explanation and possible course of action
> 2. Not a bug, link to document/explanation and correct way to accomplish what the user wants.
> 3. Explanation of ways to further nail down the root cause of bug (crash dump/kmdb etc), leading to either a bug filing or a straight one line bug number!!
>
> Now, OpenSolaris/Solaris/SunOS is a consolidation of pretty big chunks of code. There are numerous interactions within and outside the system. This is aside from the fact that Solaris is pretty old and still evolving by the day! There are bound to be rough edges and cruft lying around.
>
> I am mystified as how it is possible that so *many* people are working on this, and almost everybody has a firm grasp of the whole system!!! It is as if the *complete* system is a glassbox and everybody can see it through and through and identify where and how the system is acting up.
>
> Now if it were just the work of one person, I could understand, but it is as if the whole work is hand-sculpted by whole team and even then everybody knows the whole picture! I have never seen anything like this, and frankly find it hard to believe.
>
> So, thanks folks, you rock! But - goddamit - how do you do it ???
>
> Is is a bug database with magical search capabilities ? Is it some piece of magical "process" ? Or is it that Sun somehow found the receipe to problem of scaling the competence ?
Fanmail need to be like this :)
~Anil
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opensolaris-discuss mailing list
opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
508
From:
GB
Registered:
4/27/05
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Re: Where is the magic ?
Posted:
Jan 7, 2008 8:18 AM
in response to: mritun
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Akhilesh,
I have been dealing with Sun for quite some years now, and I can say that from my perspective, Sun is absolutely head
and shoulders above any other producer of operating environments in the following areas (amongst others):
a) Raw technical skills - the Sun techs are absolutely the best in terms of applying their "brains-the-size-of-a-planet"
to real technical problems/opportunities
b) Honed technical skills - raw talent can only take you so far; and the Sun techs really are able to apply their
talents to many diverse areas, from mission-critical problem-solving to design of new infrastructures.
c) Foresight - creating pioneering yet realizable solutions to problems that occur/will occur in the proliferation of
systems at all levels from the Desktop to the Enterprise
d) Dedication - Sun has suffered from RIF's like many organisations, but all the staffers that I encounter are _really_
dedicated and professional. And, dare I say it, some (you know who you are...) even appear to revel in their jobs ;-)
e) Sun Microsystems itself deserves much praise (although this also falls under "foresight"). Creating OpenSolaris has
created a world of opportunity for any developer (and others) to contribute directly, and very easily, to the future of
OpenSolaris, and ultimately Solaris. It is a opportunity that has never been available previously to the general public;
and should be (and is being) welcomed with open arms.
f) Community: OpenSolaris is absolutely underpinned by community; and the community is almost seamless between Sun
internal and anyone external. Mailing lists are completely open and user groups abound globally, contributed to by Sun
and non-Sun alike.
Sure, there are fantastic tools available like OpenGrok; but these have all been created by the talent of the techs
behind them.
And if I sound like I have have only credited the true techs, then it is just a partial omission on my part :-( A
perfect exampleis that OpenSolaris would absolutely not be where it is now without the stout leadership, dedication and
focus of Jim Grisanzio.
So all in all, Sun _does_ just have a fantastic bunch of people working for them (and long may they do so), the products
are fantastic, and soon everyone will have some aspect of (Open)Solaris in their lives.
If this all sounds like fanmail, then I don't often get the chance to praise the worthy-ones.
Regards... Sean.
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opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris dot org
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Posts:
528
From:
CA
Registered:
12/22/05
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Re: Where is the magic ?
Posted:
Jan 7, 2008 11:01 AM
in response to: mritun
To: OpenSolaris » discuss
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I wonder if it is perhaps because the primary users of OpenSolaris at this point are system administrators ( who are paid by their various employers specifically to understand the system and diagnose problems ) and the people who write the thing.
There's also the matter that OpenSolaris is a system in and of itself, and all the parts are built together ( contrasted with GNU/Linux, where every little piece is made by someone else, and it all fits together with proverbial duct-tape and staples )
> Hi everybody,
>
> As an opening remark, let me say that I have been
> dealing with systems for sometime and have been
> monitoring OpenSolaris since its inception.
>
> Although there are many nice things, I have been both
> puzzled and "awed" by one particular thing I have
> observed - the problem resolution process.
>
> I have observed again and again[1], that whenever
> somebody posts a "problem", it is invariably replied
> with one or more of the following-
>
> 1. Bug number, explanation and possible course of
> action
> 2. Not a bug, link to document/explanation and
> correct way to accomplish what the user wants.
> 3. Explanation of ways to further nail down the root
> cause of bug (crash dump/kmdb etc), leading to either
> a bug filing or a straight one line bug number!!
>
> Now, OpenSolaris/Solaris/SunOS is a consolidation of
> pretty big chunks of code. There are numerous
> interactions within and outside the system. This is
> aside from the fact that Solaris is pretty old and
> still evolving by the day! There are bound to be
> rough edges and cruft lying around.
>
> I am mystified as how it is possible that so *many*
> people are working on this, and almost everybody has
> a firm grasp of the whole system!!! It is as if the
> *complete* system is a glassbox and everybody can see
> it through and through and identify where and how the
> system is acting up.
>
> Now if it were just the work of one person, I could
> understand, but it is as if the whole work is
> hand-sculpted by whole team and even then everybody
> knows the whole picture! I have never seen anything
> like this, and frankly find it hard to believe.
>
> So, thanks folks, you rock! But - goddamit - how do
> you do it ???
>
> Is is a bug database with magical search capabilities
> ? Is it some piece of magical "process" ? Or is it
> that Sun somehow found the receipe to problem of
> scaling the competence ?
>
> Regards
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Posts:
1,580
From:
US
Registered:
6/14/05
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Re: Where is the magic ?
Posted:
Jan 7, 2008 11:14 PM
in response to: mritun
To: OpenSolaris » discuss
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Well, aside from the sheer number of Sun people here, many of whom are
very expert indeed, there are also plenty of other people with a lot of
experience here. And there's tons of documentation, the Solaris Internals
books, etc.
The Sun guys do have an additional advantage: aside from more context
(such as not-yet-opened ARC cases and the like, to the point that the
totality approaches a history of _why_ things are the way they are, esp.
when combined with the memory of thousands of hallway conversaions), they
also have e.g. a better bug database than what they make generally available.
Some of that is just that they haven't gotten a better one in place for the
rest of us yet; but some of it would always be that way, because some
paying customers would report certain information with the expectation that
at least the details pertaining to them be held confidential; so redacting
all that to provide as much info as possible to the rest of us while still
protecting customer confidences would be an expensive undertaking in
its own right. And then there are bits of code that still aren't open, because
Sun (even if they have them) doesn't have full rights to them.
So some of the magic available to them is theirs and theirs alone. But
much of the magic that is particularly theirs (plus a few other people)
is earned expertise, not hoarded information. And as such, that's something
anyone can aspire to. Use it, look up things and study the code first when
you have a question (and if you have the time and enough idea where to
look at that point), maybe take a course or read some books or whatever,
and if you're up to it, someday the then newbies will be wondering where
you got your magic.
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